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[–]PatsyStoneMaverique[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I get that this is a propaganda documentary in preparation for his 2024 campaign, but seriously:

Chasten, holding the couple’s one-eyed puggle upright in his lap, tells Moss to ask Buttigieg about his identity. “He did everything to climb every ladder without being his authentic self,” he says. Buttigieg didn’t come out of the closet until 2015, when he was 33, already mayor. “You spent so much of your life hiding who you really were — did you feel like you were able to be your true self on the campaign trail?”

“Do you think he’s ready to answer that question?” Moss asks. “Can he answer that?”

“He should. You can try.”

Buttigieg walks in the room. Before he leaves, Chasten turns to his husband.

“Don’t bull---- us, Peter,” he says

My bisexual nightmare! If I was with a lesbian who looked down on me like this, who treated me with such disdain, I would dump her. You can't treat your partner like this.

Again, this is a performance intended for potential voters- which makes it worse!

I'm lost at why all the straight women who make up Buttigieg's staff seem to think coming out after 30 is some sort of moral aberration. They made a massive issue out if this, unprompted, in his last campaign.

I can guarantee voters mostly aren't aware there are social taboos in liberal social circles about gay people "coming out late."

I also disagree with the assertion in the lede that Pete is a "gifted politician." He sucks at this and would be happier, I think, quietly working a professional job where he wasn't constantly having to jump through hoops to please homophobic liberals.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I'm lost at why all the straight women who make up Buttigieg's staff seem to think coming out after 30 is some sort of moral aberration. They made a massive issue out if this, unprompted, in his last campaign.

Wait, can you explain this? Maybe just another generational difference, but I've never heard of this before. Do such straight women feel betrayed or something, lol?

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

His staff is almost all straight women. Just, like, it is. I'm suspecting they're out of their depth trying to use gay men's relationship dynamics as political messaging. They seem to look down on their own candidate, too, who is a grown ass man that obviously doesn't want to star in a soap opera.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Oh, sorry, I misread what you said lol. I meant to ask about this:

There's a social taboo among wealthy American liberals, you have to announce to your social circle that you're gay before the age of about 20 or something is deeply wrong with you. Even 20 is getting a little old, but it's the cut off in my estimation.

Is this a thing? I would love to hear more about it, if it is.

They seem to look down on their own candidate, too, who is a grown ass man that obviously doesn't want to star in a soap opera.

Yeah, they do. The tone of the article is very condescending, I'm surprised it seems to be pitching itself as "progressive" or something.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

this a thing? I would love to hear more about it, if it is.

It's always been like this with certain types of people who consider themselves straight allies. I grew up in a rural, conservative area that had a lot of "liberals" who really didn't understand gay issues but blindly supported gay political causes because it was part of a self image and a lifestyle they were taking part in.

They'd sniff you out, push you to identify yourself, if you refused they'd bully and harass you.

I had a teacher like this at my high school who was an asshole to me and a (future) gay guy in our class. She looked down on us, I guess because we weren't coming out to her satisfaction. I was being bullied and called a lesbian by a different boy in front of a group and this teacher stepped in and told him I wasn't ready for that, with this shit-eating grin on her face. The tone was very much "she's a lesbian but she can't deal with it, isn't that pathetic?" Fucking humiliating, plus it was essentially an endorsement from a gay authority to keep bullying me.

This same woman had publicly defended a lesbian prom queen a few years earlier during a big scandal where she wanted to take a girl to the dance and wear a tuxedo. Whoop dee doo, still a nasty cunt. Fuck her.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That teacher should have been fired. You don’t pressure people to come out. They may have their own reasons for not doing so, like not being certain, not having a supportive family, working in a homophobic environment or maybe they just don’t want to be around obnoxious social justice warriors.

My sister used to be like this. She suspected I was gay when I was 17, and would urge me to come out. Because she was "such a good ally". Then my mother ordered her to stop doing that. My mam knew I wasn’t ready. So my sister backed off. My sister is a lot better with it now, because she’s come out as bisexual a few years ago and realises that sexuality is not something people should wear on their sleeves or make a fuss about. She respects my wish to not make a huge deal out of my orientation. But that was after boundaries were laid down.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah, I do think some of it just stems from a lack of empathy or personal experience. Your sister may not have cared you were gay, but it's not all her. There are bigger consequences to accepting sexual orientation than your siblings' opinions 😜

Good for your mom reigning her in, sometimes people just need to back off. Now she knows and she can handle the same situation more wisely. Kind of curious, is she older than you? You came out before she did?

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

She’s younger than me. I came out as gay before she came out as bi, at least I think so. She mentioned being bi in passing when she was 15, but I said nothing, assuming she was going through puberty and never thought about it. Then she told me five years later she is bisexual, and I understood then. Maybe she told our parents before telling me, and didn’t tell me until she was 20 because she thought I knew or realised it wasn’t a big deal. She’s come a long way since.

To be fair to my sister, she was young when she was pressuring me to come out. Still a teenager. When someone is in his or her 30s and bullying a gay person to come out, then that becomes inexcusable.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, kids make mistakes. Adults make choices.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well said.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I grew up in a rural, conservative area that had a lot of "liberals" who really didn't understand gay issues but blindly supported gay political causes because it was part of a self image and a lifestyle they were taking part in.

They'd sniff you out, push you to identify yourself, if you refused they'd bully and harass you.

Gotcha, that makes a lot of sense, thank you for explaining.

I had a teacher like this at my high school who was an asshole to me and a (future) gay guy in our class. She looked down on us, I guess because we weren't coming out to her satisfaction. I was being bullied and called a lesbian by a different boy in front of a group and this teacher stepped in and told him I wasn't ready for that, with this shit-eating grin on her face. The tone was very much "she's a lesbian but she can't deal with it, isn't that pathetic?" Fucking humiliating, plus it was essentially an endorsement from a gay authority to keep bullying me.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. That is beyond fucked up; it makes me so angry to hear about situations like that. I hope that teacher didn't harm many other of the kids besides you and that gay guy.

Kind of different situation but similar, I knew a guy when I was in college who said he was straight but some "LGBTQ"-identifying people that we both knew were constantly pressuring him to "just accept that he's gay"... he was very into women, and a lot of people seemed to think he must be gay because he participated in a lot of stereotypically feminine hobbies. :/ Like you're not helping. And if he IS gay or bi, you are probably pushing him further into the closet. Ugh.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have never heard of liberals being angry that gay men come out late in their lives, to be honest. I was 18 when I came out to my mam, 19 when I came out to my sister, and 20 when I came out to my dad, my brother and later everybody else. Well, to be more precise, those were the ages when I stopped hiding my orientation. I don’t tell people I’m gay unless they ask, because now I don’t think it’s that important. There should not be a deadline to come out, just take it easy.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

don’t tell people I’m gay unless they ask, because now I don’t think it’s that important.

Yeah, that's how I go about it too. Thank you :) I'm actually out to quite a few people (not everyone because I don't mention it in all contexts), but I appreciate the encouragement!

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

From personal experience I have noticed that some liberals say things like “how long have you known”, “why didn’t you feel comfortable telling us”, “you know you could have told us, right?” They cannot fathom the reasons why anyone would not come out until 30 in this day and age. It’s a sign of how far removed they are from the experience of realizing and coming to terms with the fact that you’re homosexual/bisexual. They want to fit you into a narrative of the big bad world made you hide who you are so you couldn’t be your “true authentic self” and now thanks to people like us, you have no reason to hide.

I have also noticed the goal posts shifting in terms of what is considered late for coming out as a lesbian. In my day I knew no one coming out early 20s and now some people apologize and act like that’s super late. I have definitely noticed that a lot of lesbians act very embarrassed about how “late” they came out even when it doesn’t seem all that late to figure yourself out to me.

I will say that personally I struggled a lot with acknowledging being gay with close liberal friends who knew me for a while because I was afraid of the narrative of “how/why did you hide yourself/who are you really?”

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

From personal experience I have noticed that some liberals away things like “how long have you known”, “why didn’t you feel comfortable telling us”, “you know you could have told us, right?”

Ah okay yeah that totally makes sense. Yeah I hear that message sometimes echoed in media and it really pisses me off. Like, hello, this was not a personal attack on you, the person probably hid it because they had genuine issues to worry about, not to send a personalized message to someone close to them via their natural-born sexual orientation. Insert eyeroll here.

They cannot fathom the reasons why anyone would not come out until 30 in this day and age. It’s a sign of how far removed they are from the experience of realizing and coming to terms with the fact that you’re homosexual/bisexual.

Yes EXACTLY. I appreciate you putting it that way; it is a long distance away, empathetically speaking, from understanding the experience of someone who is gay or bisexual. Sometimes I wish I could just.. pick up my mind, and plop it into someone else's (the straight person doing this) for a moment, so that they could understand my perspective.

They want to fit you into a narrative of the big bad world made you hide who you are so you couldn’t be your “true authentic self” and now thanks to people like us, you have no reason to hide.

Yep yep yep. I note that in the end, it all loops back to them. Seeing and understanding our homosexuality/bisexuality in reference to themselves. I think a really supportive straight person would like, be able to take a moment and look and imagine what the world might look from our perspective. I'm talking about perspective a lot but honestly it really does come down to perspective-taking, IMO, in order to act like a real ally...

I have also noticed the goal posts shifting in terms of what is considered late for coming out as a lesbian. In my day I knew no one coming out early 20s and now some people apologize and act like that’s super late. I have definitely noticed that a lot of lesbians act very embarrassed about how “late” they came out even when it doesn’t seem all that late to figure yourself out to me.

I think some of this pressure comes from younger generations, a la "I could access the internet at 10 years old; now that I know all these labels, I should just KNOW which one describes me!" Add to that, the facts that a) almost everyone young is chronically online and b) there's already this societal narrative about LGB people that "You just know. You just know when you're really young" and then us LGB who take a while to figure out, we risk feeling invalidated and left behind, lol, like we're not living up to this fucking stereotype that society has about us. (And I understand that some LGB people actually are that way, but like, the difference is descriptive vs. prescriptive. Let's not force every LBG person into a mold, just because a sizeable chunk are that way.)

I will say that personally I struggled a lot with acknowledging being gay with close liberal friends who knew me for a while because I was afraid of the narrative of “how/why did you hide yourself/who are you really?”

Yeah you know actually, I have struggled with this too. Especially with acknowledging to myself that I am lesbian. Because it meant acknowledging, accepting, that I really wasn't.. being open with myself, even, you know? It's a disturbing thought, lol.

edit: Sorry I wrote you an essay lol, this always seems to happen. You just have such good ideas to think about, haha.