It's long, and I suspect many of you won't listen to the whole thing, so here's my summary of it. It's a long, often circling and repetitive conversation, that—predictably—doesn't really go anywhere.

He asks her where she got her training.

[7:25] I haven't read actual medical [papers].

[7:40] No, I mean, I've read little, abstract parts of different pieces; but I've got to classes; I've done trainings.

They talk all lot about what the job of a therapist is, in this situation. The therapist says her job is to help patients figure out what to do, not tell them what to do. He insists that in situations like these, where there are delusions and self-harm on the line, it is the therapist's job to tell people what to do.

[10:40] [People] who should have been stopped, and should have been told what to do, and should have been told what's real, because some people who are mentally ill need to know what's real.

She questions how he would have received that, at the time, if that had happened. He admits he probably wouldn't have taken it well, but maintains it would've been the right thing to do, and is still the protocol in other analogous situations.

[12:00] Therapist: If I came to you and I said: "I think you should stop, and I don't think you should do this," you would be having the same exact reaction.

Detransitioner: Yeah but at least I'd be fertile! And at least I wouldn't have boobs, and I wouldn't have worsening health conditions. That's the difference. That's the difference. That's the point. That's why you call the police on the people who say that they're going to hurt themselves, because they might hate you afterward, but at least you saved them. But that's not what's happening here. What's happening is you're hurting people.

This is a point that they circle back to again.

[18:35] Detransitioner: And you're just gonna let us decide for ourselves! But we're mentally ill! So how are you doing that? How are you doing that in good conscience? Letting us decide for ourselves?

Therapist: How would you feel if I was like: "Well, I think you have a lot going on, and I think I should call and have you committed, because you can't figure out stuff", you wouldn't appreciate that.

Detransitioner: Neither would someone who's going to kill themselves. They wouldn't appreciate that you did that.

She's either the 3rd or 4th gender therapist he's seen, and she often uses this as a shield, saying, "I wasn't the one overseeing the core of your transition, so I can't speak to whatever happened then." He firmly believes that all gender therapists are the same, and that he would've had largely the same experience with any gender therapist he went to.

Another repeating idea is that he alternates between blaming her personally—because she is the instrument of all of this—and a viewpoint which still blames her, but acknowledges that she could not have done otherwise—because this is the framework, this is the cultural zeitgeist, this is the training she received. and he often talks about "you", and then zooms back to clarify he means gender therapists collectively, not just her personally.

[27:46] you types of people, you gender therapists

To him, she — at the least — is the sum total of all 4 gender therapists he's been to, and — at the most — the sum total of all gender therapists everywhere. Some moments I almost feel bad for her, because how on earth can one human being ever be expected to shoulder all the unenumerable harm caused by gender therapist collectively? It's like Atlas holding up the sky. But in the next line, she'll duck away, shirk any responsibly whatsoever, and it's so cowardly, so spineless, that any sympathy I had for her vanishes.

She says a lot of, "I'm sorry you feel that way," and there are huge, gaping pauses after he speaks, while he waits for her to reply. Like 10 seconds long, which sounds short but feels like forever in context.

[29:50] I am not sure where you would like this conversation to go.

Which pretty much sums it up. She doesn't really have anything to say for herself, and he knows that—he knew it long before they had this conversation. He had this conversation at all because he wanted to call her out for what she'd done. Because he was curious what she would say. Because he hoped she might take something away from it, and not to this again to someone else. But not because he thought it would actually amount to anything.