LGB ErasureThey really are coming for us and trying to make gay men and woman "deprogram" our "preferences".

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[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 34 insightful - 2 fun34 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"bold of you to assume trans people are attracted to YOU" is always my thought when I see that.

I have Tinder Gold and can see who is trying to message me on Grindr. I think I have a pretty clear idea of the number of women I've had to block on the latter and clear from my queue on the former.

I'm a gay transman and I felt all of this in my soul. Its disgusting how much transphobia is out there. Gay trans men exist, damn it! We aren't a fetish, we aren't a sort of lesser man, we are men!

You are not a man and you yourself have a fetish.

It's good to keep in mind there's no such thing as THE gay community, there's just gay pockets and subcultures with varying degrees of chillness. None of those gay men that say those kind of things is the pr manager of the gay community either, it's even the other way around, they are seeking community and attempting to define themselves through saying that "ew, vagina" shit. If you think that's pathetic, you aren't wrong. You will find partners just fine though, they'll simply not be in the transphobic pockets of gay men. Ultimately, it's no different from how "gay culture" excludes a bunch of body types and ethnicities, everyone hates it and the people that do it are some losers on grindr, not confident and well adjusted people.

Gay men come together into "communities" because we are exclusively same-sex attracted and want to maximize our chances at finding a short-term or long-term partner to pair off with. Those of us who feel safe enough will express the "ew vagina" sentiment because we are not able to enthusiastically consent to anyone born with one. If you have a problem with that, you are a sexual predator. Many gay men will censor ourselves because of having to navigate education, housing, and employment in order to survive in the larger society and at least try and prosper or because we don't want to be iced out of the few spaces that prioritize(d) same-sex attraction. The people that make their boundaries clear are not losers and are, in fact, much more well adjusted than anyone going on an incel/femcel rant every other day.

[–]chandra 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t get why anyone would say they focus all their attraction on genitalia. That’s my last consideration on the “do I find this person attractive?”

Someone needs to introduce these people to the term 'motivated reasoning.' They've constructed a completely new understanding of human sexuality, one that's completely alien to the experience of 99% of people, solely in order to allow themselves to believe they're attractive.

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe it's naive of me, but I'd like to believe people are generally non-confrontational. People wouldn't feel the need to spell out their sexual orientation if they felt like their boundaries were respected in the first place.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why the fuck homophobia is ok if you frame it as "transphobia issue"? All of these people are homophobes, hate gay people and see them only as sex objects to fullfill their fetish.

[–]Hannibalboy93[S] 15 insightful - 6 fun15 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

"Transphobes are attracted to me until the moment they know that I'm trans. I pass. I've had a year of testosterone. The thing that bothers me is that they're LYING when they say they're not attracted to trans people. They're just being transphobic."

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They are never going to understand their bait-and-switch nature when they "pass" and don't disclose, apparently. Nobody else has boundaries or feelings.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Snapchat filters then get mad when the person realizes it was a filter

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The ability to manipulate reality in order to manipulate other people is something kids now have on a scale that previous generations never did (which is good). Naturally, being kids in fucked-up echo chambers, they are not going to use that power responsibly (say, for art rather than deception) or with full disclosure. This likely leads to a lack of respect for transparency in general.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 14 insightful - 8 fun14 insightful - 7 fun15 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

These days fae has progressed to a non binary transman who is also genderqueer and sometimes passes. Or more likely some people bun interacts with are polite enough to ignore the obvious. Gay men I’m afraid to say are going to be much less polite when fae tries to force them to have sex with bunself.

[–]Hannibalboy93[S] 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

lol yeah won't be dating a kitten-self either

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That's okay, there's only room for one (c/h)isser in any relationship anyway.

[–]jim_steak 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

But the fact remains with this question, this question is triggering to dysphoria and I shouldn’t have to be reminded of all I said about how we are viewed. It can be upsetting.

"I'm schizophrenic, and it's really invalidating when people tell me they can't hear the voices I'm hearing. If you're not willing to pretend to hear what I'm hearing, at least don't talk about it so I don't feel upset??"

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, at least schizophrenic people are being honest about what they hear, it's just due to something going on in their brains. Trans-identified people like OP, who is trying to shame LGB people for not being attracted to the opposite sex, are perfectly capable of hearing, they just refuse to take no for an answer.

[–]Hannibalboy93[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

"What we're saying is that perhaps their sentiment shouldn't be constantly normalized in society because it's based on transphobia/cisnormativity. THEN you're going to see more people who don't even begin to think that way, because they're not conditioned into it. How is this difficult to grasp?"

wait until they start creating tv shows and movies that have transgender people more as the main characters showing "cis gay men and woman" in relationships with trans people. Trying to program us to normalize it through media. Have any of you guys seen shows or movies like that now.

[–]ThrowMeAway2879 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"What we're saying is that perhaps their sentiment shouldn't be constantly normalized in society because it's based on transphobia/cisnormativity."

Literally saying homosexuality shouldn't be normalized. Where is the difference to the asshole screaming about "gays shoving it down his throat" because he saw two men holding hands in the street?

Fuck these people.

[–]TiredTrendersSuper-gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Where is the difference to the asshole screaming about "gays shoving it down his throat" because he saw two men holding hands in the street?"

See that's the cool part, they're the same people. Only this time in wigs/crew cuts, opposite sex clothing and loaded up on hormones via HRT, whilst insisting they "pass" and then calling us bigots when we point out the obvious.

[–]millicentfawcett 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There have been a few.

I think the rebooted Sabrina show did this and the rebooted L Word.

The rebooted Saved by the Bell? Not sure if that had a romance in it?

That show that starred Zendaya had some sort of faux lesbian thing going on too I recall.

Avoid reboots seems to be one clear theme. Lol

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sense8

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Shameless US lived up to its name by showing a gay man being chewed out by a "gay" trans man, only for the gay man to apologise cause he was the bigot somehow.

[–]Hannibalboy93[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Oh yes, like another post in this sub the other day where I got dogpiled for saying that maybe there's a little transphobia in equating attraction to genitals only. Yep, I was just being homophobic and invalidating their sexuality because it "is" about genitals (according to some people even here apparently). Excuse me, all I'm doing is not giving cis people asspats for acting like trans people are some entirely separate fake gender that it's ok not to include among your ~preferences.

Realistically no one can or should be told who to date, of course. But making up obviously transphobic reasons and then expecting to be told it's ok, it's just your ~biological drives~ that mean trans people are inherently less desirable? I'm sorry but that is a twist on transphobia. I'm genuinely puzzled so many cis gay men are ok with sexualizing their identity so much that they equate man = dick and that's it. Last I checked that hypersexualization was a stereotype they seemed to be quite fed up with.

"Anyway, turning it all into a talking point is definitely a reminder that it's still seen as okay to exclude trans people just by virtue of being trans and it's both tiring and othering. Especially when you have those folks whose attraction "magically" turns off when someone comes out to them. Like you were perfectly capable of it five minutes ago, don't tell me that's not related to transphobia in any way."

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Especially when you have those folks whose attraction "magically" turns off when someone comes out to them. Like you were perfectly capable of it five minutes ago, don't tell me that's not related to transphobia in any way.

That's not transphobia though. There is a specific term called a 'turn-off' in terms of attraction. As in, if you see someone behave some way, or you receive information that changes the way you see someone, you might not attracted anymore. For example, if I found someone attractive, then found out that they're my first cousin, or biological sibling, the attraction that was there will be gone. Same goes for deception. If someone hides a part of their identity to seem more desirable, of course attraction may dissipate if the other person finds out that they were not upfront about this detail.

Edit: Used the wrong term for deception

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think a good word for what's going on here would be "mimicking." Trans people are mimicking the opposite sex. They of course don't think they are (by which I mean the TRA types; the transsexual people (who are mostly pre-2015 transitioners) I know are quite aware of what their biological sex is and don't play games with words about it). Animals employ this strategy for various reasons, such as for safety, or for predatory purposes. "Passing" could qualify under either of those motives in addition to just wanting to feel different / better somehow in their bodies.

The TRAs want to ignore that what they are doing is mimicry (the bait part of a bait-and-switch scenario) so that they can then be victims when someone who was presented with a pseudo-cis person (bait) finds out the truth (switch). It's rationalization. And that's the thing that makes them unattractive. They aren't willing to risk being evaluated on their true merits. (While complaining that they aren't being evaluated on their true merits. Sure, because you didn't SHOW ANYONE those. You presented a false self and proceeded to flop around being a victim when that didn't work.)

Which is dumb and short-sighted. If you are going to be in the world as a tangibly trans person (and it really is tangible by the time nudity is involved) then pony up the honesty required to find suitable mates instead of just disappointing a larger group of people who were looking for something else in the first place.

Don't stand on the sidewalk with an overcoat full of fake Rolexes, in other words. Offer what you really have to offer, i.e. grow up.

But they can't because now they're selling each other delusions 24/7. The backlash from the rest of us is not only inevitable, it's also necessary, because it is simply boundary enforcement. Leave us alone and we won't have to be disappointing. We have definitions for our words and we have had them for a very long time. If you try to come in with a rewrite of reality and get sex from people you know damned well want something else, you deserve every last bit of rejection you've earned. It's just idiotic. No amount of screwing around with language will change that.

[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wrong. According to the college professor whose tweets I can't be bothered to go find . . . anything short of being willing to go full-on with a tran is exactly transphobia. They teach this stuff to the young people 100% unironically. Little wonder there's so much confusion on topic.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, I was just being homophobic and invalidating their sexuality because it "is" about genitals (according to some people even here apparently).

Are you talking about people in this sub...? I mean, yeah, being LGB is about being romantically attracted to the same sex, too, not just sexually attracted. But genitalia are one external indicator of biological sex, and the definition of same-sex-attracted (aka LGB) is being attracted to the same sex. If someone was born with a dick then I'm not into them, because they're the opposite sex. Gay men would say the same about vaginas. So in that sense, yeah, it's about sex; genitals are part of the two types of sexual reproductive systems in humans and they indicate sex, so people might implicitly refer to sex by referencing genitals.

[–]7874 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can you link me? I couldn't find the post in your history.

Buut I did see a related post where you said "cis gays/lesbians are able to like trans people" and I'm wondering what kind of trans people you mean? Hypothetically, gays could be attracted to trans guys (male "transwomen"), but the percentage of them who actually are attracted is probably quite low. And gays are not capable of attraction to women whether they're trans or not.

Man != dick, but every single healthy man is born with a dick, among other things. Every single cell of the body of a man is different from that of a woman and a dick is just one aspect of that. Dick is just brought up because trans people change their bodies in order to look like the opposite sex and sometimes they "pass" decently from the waist up, but they often don't get genital surgery because of how horrible it usually turns out and even when they do get it, it's nothing like the real thing.

Homosexuality is a sexual identity. It's a sexual orientation. It is sexual by nature. Obviously we fucking love each other too, but the basis is still sexual attraction and there's nothing wrong with that. It's the same as heterosexuality and bisexuality in that sense.

As far as attraction being there and magically "turning off", I also drafted a response to that a while ago; give it a read, it's not that long.

edit: And I just don't understand how that's transphobic? I'm not trying to be a cock but can you just elaborate on that a little?