Indoctrination / DoublethinkThe irony - complaining because "online queer folk have decided lesbians can have sex with men for fun"

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[–]hufflepuff-poet 28 insightful - 18 fun28 insightful - 17 fun29 insightful - 18 fun -  (0 children)

As a trans girl who is only really attracted to and interested in relationships with women, I feel like there’s enough baggage in trans fems using the term ‘lesbian’ without people making it even more absurd. Has this come across anyone else’s radar?

Lmao so he only cares because the new dogma makes his older preferred dogma look even more absurd. Lesbians are female homosexuals, the rest of y'all "lesbians" are bisexual larpers and male sexual predators 🙅🏾‍♀️

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 29 insightful - 10 fun29 insightful - 9 fun30 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, if men themselves can be "lesbians", why not straight/bi women? One hardly seems any more absurd than the other.

I honestly don’t even fathom how you could have sex with someone, a pretty open, revealing thing, intentionally with someone you’re actively and completely unattracted to.

HMM. YOU DON'T SAY.

[–]julesburm1891 23 insightful - 11 fun23 insightful - 10 fun24 insightful - 11 fun -  (0 children)

“I’m so mad at homophobic tiktok queers even though I’m totally one of them.”

[–]censorshipment 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

TikTok?? Enuff said. That platform is a misinformation hub, it seems.

[–]Rag3 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

It’s tumblr in video form.

[–]DimDroog 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's Twitters insane sibling.

I frigging hate TikTok.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Best comment:

Children on TikTok are not part of my community.

But I think y'all need to re-read that post. There are actually some rational things being said, there. I note they have voting hidden as well. So while they aren't quite getting it from our perspective they are way closer than most conversations we see among NB/trans-identified people. They are at least willing to tentatively broach topics that we talk about over here bluntly. I'd call that noteworthy.

[–]justagaydude123 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Also, can we get past this idea that labels are something you just get to pick please?

They're so close.

[–]Socialjustus 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am absolutely convinced that the non-binary thing caught on because the prospect of the sacrifices that adult men have to make terrifies Zoomers.

I'm sure it terrifies boys of every generation, but Zoomers are the first generation that believe they have an escape hatch.

[–]Mermer 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I don't think we should be spreading the idea of being pressed about who sleeps with who. Why don't lesbians get to be bi-curious? I think many lesbians struggle with accepting being a lesbian because how it is forbidden for them to even find a man attractive. You can appreciate someone's attractiveness, hell even have a crush on them but never actually see them in that way realistically. And maybe you can even try it with a very special man for the pure sake of experimentation or fun without having to disgenuinely identify as bi. Idk, if you ask me, using men for sex without actually liking them or with having 0 intentions of anything real seems pretty gay to me. Just my opinion, pls don't attack me if you disagree.

Wow, ok, edit: call me crazy but I still don't think purely circumstantial, one in a million probably heavily power imbalanced sex with a man makes you bi if you don't seek relations with men on regular basis. Also, finding a man attractive ≠ being attracted to him especially if you don't normally find men attractive.

If these girls would use some more specific label like "bisexual homoromantic" you'd probably be rolling your eyes. Labels are societal and signal who you're interested in so I do not think it is fair to call yourself bi if you don't like men and you're not interested in them.

Edit 2: afterthoughts, if anyone even sees this. I'm not saying what those girls are doing is right. You really shouldn't be sleeping with people just because you're bored. But if that's your reasoning behind it I really wouldn't count it as attraction.

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Idk, if you ask me, using men for sex without actually liking them or with having 0 intentions of anything real seems pretty gay to me.

Fucking men (as a woman) isn't gay. Period.

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't understand why you claim to be against trans ideology but spew this nonsense. Lesbians aren't attracted to men by definition. No one is "forbidding" lesbians from finding men attractive. They just don't.

[–]szalinskikidproblematic androphile 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Why don't lesbians get to be bi-curious?" Because this really stretches the term 'lesbian', and 'homosexual', until it means nothing anymore. Being bi-curious means you're in a state of questioning; it means your sexual orientation is in limbo. It implies that someone either doesn't understand sexual attraction yet (like kids/teens for example) or that you thought you had your sexual attraction figured out until you found someone attractive whose sex isn't included within this definition, which simply means you used the wrong label/term to describe your feelings until now. Happens to the best.

But you're not a lesbian AND bi-curious. Just like you can't be straight and bi-curious. If someone is really comfortable sexually experimenting with either sex, then this person isn't homo- nor heterosexual.

The problem here is that this woman and maybe you are using 'lesbian' or sexual orientation in general as an identity, and not just a term to describe homosexual women and sexual attraction. And that's straight out of the TRA textbook and queer theory 101. And if you do that, then 'lesbian', 'gay' and 'homosexual' have no sexuality-related meaning at all. What's left is stereotypes.

If a woman, an adult human female, is attracted to a man, then this woman is factually not homosexual. Homosexuality, being attracted to the same sex, is not the right descriptor for the sexual orientation of this particular woman. The question everyone should ask is why she clings to the identity "lesbian"? Why not embrace bisexuality? If society just accepts this kind of entitlement to words because of the "be kind" narrative, what does it mean for lesbians who do not feel the same way as her? Because now we can't actually distinguish anymore between women who are only attracted to women, and women who are attracted to both sexes. What does this accomplish? We will just end up in a society in which homosexual women can't organize or even define themselves anymore. Homosexuals then cease to exist. Among the TRA kind, we're already just "people with a preference". It's Orwellian.

There's nothing wrong with being bi or straight. This woman can still live and identify with all the lesbian stereotypes that she chooses. It doesn't change the meaning of the word homosexual, and it therefore doesn't make her a lesbian.

[–]MilkTea 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The thing is, this not only effectively erases lesbians (as others have already said)-- it also erases bisexual women.

Because what you're describing here IS female bisexuality. Yes, even if the woman doesn't seek sex with men on a regular basis; even if she only occasionally finds a man attractive; even if she just sleeps with them for fun, without any sense of emotional attachment. "Bisexual" simply means being sexually attracted to both sexes; it doesn't matter whether that attraction is equal-- you can be decidedly more inclined one way than the other-- or involves liking/loving them. The term covers all of this.

But if it's included under "lesbian"... what does "bisexual" mean anymore? Particularly since it tends to be forgotten/ignored/dismissed as it is.

In order for both bisexuality and female homosexuality to be recognized and respected, "lesbian" must maintain its definition as "woman or girl who is exclusively same-sex attracted". Otherwise, we both get lost: lesbians are misinterpreted as bisexuals, and bisexuals just plain disappear. We've already seen what damage the former can do ("girldick", anyone?); I sure don't wanna see the latter come to pass, either!

[–]7874 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If a lesbian tries out sex with a man (which is very common and often traumatic and the result of internalized homophobia) and doesn't like it, she's a lesbian. If she does like it, she's bisexual.

A "lesbian" who can be sexually aroused by males is bisexual.

The majority of established homosexuals have already been through a bi-curious phase, then tried desperately to convince themselves that they are at least bisexual, but to no avail. Your example is much more likely to occur with a straight person or a bisexual who happens to find more people of the opposite sex sexually attractive.

"Labels" aren't a "signal to society" they're words which have established definitions. A lesbian is a female homosexual, not a bi woman who only likes to date women. If "lesbians" are capable of attraction to men, what does that mean for homosexual rights? Our whole basis is that homosexuality is immutable. You're giving conversion-therapy advocates ammunition when you misuse language like that.