Colonization'The Elephant In The Room' (hint: it identifies as a leopard and wears thigh high socks and has green hair)

submitted by ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah from jrobert484.medium.com

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[–][deleted] 36 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 0 fun37 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm going to have to disagree. Compromise may work sometimes in the case of trans men in gay male spaces, but it does not work with trans women in lesbian spaces. They were invited into lesbian spaces and it was still a very hostile takeover. A takeover that involved many thousands of death and rape threats directed at lesbians. A takeover that prevents lesbians from even discussing our sexual orientation.

There is no compromise with people who demand access to lesbians' bodies. None.

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The F2Ms learned they can crash the party on any night, but it isn’t as fun because they will party alone if they do. So, space was made, nobody was replaced by someone else, and everybody had equal access. That’s an ethical change.

That's not an ethical change. For any actual homosexual man who is violated because there is a biological woman in an explicitly sexual space for men, they are experiencing sexual misconduct due to her presence (either as voyeur or exhibitionist). On the nights that center these women, those are nights that those men will not go to the bathhouse for the sake of their mental health. Those also may have been the only nights he had off from work so there goes access to one of the few spaces that centered same-sex attraction.

I follow the cruising listings on Squirt.org (in part because of my old job). I've seen what gay men have posted on the listings for bathhouses that allow transgender identified people and women (in general). Saying that we don't fucking like it isn't me projecting.

[–][deleted] 32 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 0 fun33 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I really don't see how that's a compromise. Trans men get to go any day they want on top of having 2 days a week dedicated specifically to them.

What do gay men even get out of this compromise? Trans men get what they want+more and gay men get fucking nothing. Great compromise.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah[S] 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A compromise is any situation in which the narcissist wins.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reading that bit disgusted me to no end. Two nights a week for mentally ill heterosexual women, but these same women can come in any other day of the week? That is not a compromise. The only logical solution to this problem is to reinforce the policy that this is a men's space and not let "trans men" in. But know, we have to make the compromise so as not to incur the wrath of neoliberal busybodies. Is it any wonder society thinks that homosexuals are pathetic and weak?

[–]julesburm1891 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I disagree. For the past decade we’ve repeatedly seen what happens when we give an inch to be “inclusive.” It’ll appease people for a short period and more demands will follow. Sure, the situation at Steam Works “works” right now. (Let’s not lie to ourselves. Their arrangement is that gay men are welcome 5/7 nights a week and transmen are welcome 7/7 nights a week with two of those nights being special nights all about them.) However, within the next two years, this compromise is going to be framed as transphobic, the pinnacle of cis gay privilege, and no different than racial segregation. Mark my words.

Furthermore, this method does not account for transbians. Every time any attempt at compromise with transbians has been made, it has resulted in transbians launching smear campaigns against the institution and trying to shut us down. It almost always escalates to vandalism as well as threats of physical violence and sexual assault. It sometimes comes to actual rape and assault.

Lastly, compromising on this ignores the fact that this is still an attempt to redefine homosexuality. Sure, you can give the Aidens two special nights at the gay bar. All it does is further the claim that some gay men like pussy. If we do not have the language to describe ourselves, we cannot advocate for ourselves.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m sad for the owners of the Saloon, but I wished they stood their ground. Yes, they’d lose most of their customers, but they lost their customers anyway. The sane customers left, and all that remained were the narcissists, the idiots, the psychopaths and the lunatics. The couple should have just sold off the bar and moved to a small town if they could not deal with the abuse. But instead, they not only gave it away to some asshole who extorted it off of them, they apologised on camera. Wasn’t homosexuality illegal in the state of Minnesota until 2001? Surely that couple were well capable of standing up to homophobic campaigners and homophobic politicians. Why can’t they stand up to woke activists? Was the couple demoralised by the backlash?

I am sympathetic to the couple, but I should be more sympathetic. They are two elderly men, who are probably not as strong as they used to be. But I am so sick of gay men and lesbians not standing up for themselves. The only way to win this war is to stand your ground. But we didn’t, and now it looks like we are losing. And the sad thing is, it makes all these decades of fighting for our rights worthless.

[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why compromise? You give them an inch and they would want a mile. Mentally ill fetishistic women and men don't need any more societal coddling

[–]our_team_is_winning 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Doesn't it also seem like Gaydens (I hope that's not a banned slur here?) have this cartoon image of gay men having uncontrollable urges, so that these women think a bath house guarantees they will get laid by a gay man? Like they imagine all gay men are just banging away in any hole that walks in the door, so these women can validate their fetish easily here?

I'm not a gay man, but I would imagine many men go to these places and get ignored and go home lonely. [And I doubt they go home and spend the rest of the night on Twitter posting attacks on "cisgay men who wouldn't bang me" !]

I feel the only solution is private clubs -- and I am not sure they will be deemed legal? I am not sure how much anonymity men prefer in these places (?) but I think all of us are going to need to use membership to exclude the TQ. At FIRST it might seem like there are too few customers, but as word spreads that this venue is exclusively gay men, or exclusively lesbian, or SUPER bi, I think it would have a HUGE customer base.

THEN the lawsuits would start against "TQ-exclusionary" places, especially as these unwell people now have legal paperwork saying (read: lying) that they are the opposite sex.

Same-sex attracted should NOT be synonymous with ENABLER.

[–]julesburm1891 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

We have one gay club in my city. It charges a $10 cover fee to listen to a shitty DJ, pay $7 for badly-mixed drinks, and dance with bunch of straight people. (I’m still irked that the last three times I went I had multiple dudes trying to pick me up even though I was clearly there for women.)

I’d happily pay a monthly membership of $25, the $10 cover fee, and full drink prices if it meant I’d only be there with homosexuals and bisexuals looking for same-sex stuff. What kills me is that, if this existed, it would have to be totally underground. TRAs would probably set the place on fire if they knew we were in there dancing without them.

[–]our_team_is_winning 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TRAs would probably set the place on fire if they knew we were in there dancing without them.

Truth. Total truth.

IF we can ever get the law back to say sex-based and NOT "gender identity," then and only then can we legally have same-sex only places again.

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

In order to operate (at least in Canada), bathhouses have to have their business license be under "private club." That doesn't stop the harassment campaigns, the attempts to get in stealth, or the local university's Women's Studies department from awarding a PhD to someone for disparaging how "transphobic" and "misogynistic" the space is for centering on "cis gays."

[–]julesburm1891 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I enjoy few things as much as TRAs insisting that gay men not being attracted to transmen is misogynistic. Gotta love plainly admitting that they’re women.

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh it's not just about TRAs thinking gay men are misogynistic for not wanting to interact with transmen sexually- it's women, too. Always fun to have older gay men fill me in on the times that women would try and break in to the bathhouse back in the mid-00s.

But we're also considered misogynistic because we don't want to fuck men adorned with accoutrements such as long nails, perfume, and makeup. God forbid we like our men, even our feminine men, natural.

[–]julesburm1891 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You should 100% start a series of posts of stories about the bath house.

[–]JulienMayfair 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If the TQ+ want "queer" spaces or groups so much, why don't they open or start their own? Why do they ALWAYS have to take over spaces, groups, or organizations opened or created by the LGB?

[–]Rosefield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because they are entitled leeches who can't create stuff on their own. They take what you build and then destroy it.

[–]censorshipment 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

In Berkeley, Steamworks, a gay male sex club, has enjoyed a win-win scenario with the F2M community, and the gay male patrons that have met there for decades are happy with the compromise too. The official policy is that F2Ms are welcome on any night of the week, but on two nights of the week, F2Ms are the main attraction. Steamworks has always had theme nights. Bear nights, twink nights, leather nights, and now F2M nights. The F2Ms love it (per the Reddit group I’ve infiltrated), and they go on their designated nights because they understand that the gay males who are there on those nights want to party with them. The F2Ms learned they can crash the party on any night, but it isn’t as fun because they will party alone if they do. So, space was made, nobody was replaced by someone else, and everybody had equal access. That’s an ethical change.

No the fuck it is not.

[–]Rosefield 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Dude is coping hard.

B-but Gay men still have their spaces! It's just that now straight wo...errr trans men are allowed to be in our spaces AND get 2 special nights where everything is about them. Ethical change! ETHICAL CHANGE!!

Can't roll my eyes hard enough. This man is just delusional. Gay men lose another space and he tries to downplay the situation.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because a lot of gay men are mentally weak. We are spineless. We don’t stand up for ourselves anymore.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Certainly a loss for us. The fact that people like the author see this as a compromise is why our community is an easy target, and why society does not respect us.

[–]censorshipment 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've always supported any demographic having their own exclusive places/spaces/businesses... as long as the majorities (straight, "cis", white, male) do not use their power to sabotage nor shut down minorities/marginalized groups.

I supported homophobic folks refusing to do business with gay folks, such as not baking wedding cakes. Why would gay folks even want to increase the sells/revenue/whatever of homophobes? Spend gay money at gay and gay-friendly businesses lol

There is an obvious huge opportunity for capitalists to capitalize off of queer folk. Now is a great time to open bars and shit for them and their chasers. I'm sure millions of weird ass men would love to pound some "gay trans men" pussy (for free?!?!) 7 nights a week throughout the USA... and Canada lol

These crazy straight women are BEGGING for dick. I've never seen this (a group of women begging for dick) happen in my nearly 40 years of life. 🥴 it must be the HRT lol

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've never seen this (a group of women begging for dick) happen in my nearly 40 years of life. 🥴 it must be the HRT lol

Could be. Testosterone increases libido.

[–]jim_steak 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When people are invited, there is no need for a hostile takeover.

"If you just surrender immediately, there is no need for a war."

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This author should get himself checked for Stockholm Syndrome.