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[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

We have a few people (you can find them in the 50+ post thread about bi people) trying to force the idea that pan = bi and that women who are lesbians in a relationship with a trans woman are in lesbian relationships. I've reported the posts but nothing happened. Maybe others can as well? If needed I can link them.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I’ll help you report them. Direct them to me.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's me. The dude is trying to say pan and bisexual aren't the same thing, which is dumb. They're only 3 sexualities (het, homo and bi) as sexuality is only based on sex, and trans aren't a third sex. Pansexual is just a word for bi who likes also trans, but it still bi's, that doesn't mean all bi like trans, but all so called pans are bi's.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I always thought pan was the same as bi as well just in a "queer" coat.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The way people have used it in conversation with me has always meant that they were bisexual WITH an attraction to trans people as well. It is a useful clarification that helps people to know what other people might be open to. Just as "lesbian" and "gay" have specific meanings and have for a very long time, so does "bisexual," so a term that clarifies this additional form of attraction is warranted. We don't want to be harassed and pressured to sleep with trans people, either, for obvious reasons. If someone wants to signal they are open to trans people, it's perfectly fair for them to have their own term. It simplifies and makes safer for all involved the search for prospective mates, just as the other terms do. Lumping in bisexual people with "attracted to trans people" gives trans people the impression they can debate us about who we are attracted to. They can't. Just like they can't debate lesbians and gay men.

If we don't clarify our terms we can't communicate in a way that everyone understands. So no, they are not the same. This should be easy to understand without claiming that someone is trying to declare a fourth sexual orientation. The term pansexual is in wide use already and is used (by those who see themselves as such) for this particular purpose in my experience, so it might as well continue. Splitting hairs about what it should mean is pointless. It works well enough as-is.

Let's stick with understanding the spirit of what this term means rather than trying to invalidate it by forcing it to conform to a taxonomy of sexual orientations. Let them have their term; it gives the rest of us bisexuals a break from harassment.

This isn't hard to grasp. It really isn't.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yea about those term definitions... that ship has sailed a long time ago.

I don't think i ever heard the pan is including transpeople and bi not thing used like that in the last 5 years or so.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've heard it many times in the last several years.

And this is a good example of why keeping terminology clearly defined is essential.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think it can be used as a way to not really specify what sex(es) one is into, and yet appear sexually "open-minded"(a bi stereotype and a liberal goal) at the same time. I liken it to answering someone inquiring if one has Dual Citizenship from Country A and Country B, just with the declaration of "I'm a citizen of the world!"

So, it has the benefit of virtue signaling one's so-called open-mindedness with the presumed bonus of avoiding being a target of criticism from TRAs. The latter is of course nowhere near guaranteed because people seeking gender validation are a elite class of mental gymnasts in themselves and nowadays even Pan may not cut it.

But, I'll link to the historical explanation from someone who seems to know a lot more than me about this relatively ancient term.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with both your guys' takes, that makes a lot of sense. A fascinating example of what humans will do to seek social approval. Thank you for sharing!

(And I miss u/haveanicedaytoo; not sure if she's taking a break again or what, but she was awesome.)

edit: Meant to respond over here, whoops.