DiscussionGender ideology is religion.

submitted by [deleted] from self.LGBDropTheT

Speaking from a classically liberal perspective:

Gender ideology is a region. It's not at all secular. A belief in a "gendered soul" is the same belief in a soul, generally, if not more specific. In the West, I can readily reject God, but if I reject gender: there's hell to pay.

"T W A W, T M A M" they say. How is this any different from the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation? (Dodging the automod with T * A *)

When the priest is performing the ceremony of the Eucharist, the... "body of Christ, the blood of Christ," where the bread and wine literally become God...

This is the exact same thing. And yet, they seek public policy decisions, based on this?

I'm all for secularism. You do you, I'm going to do me. March to the beat of our own drum, and all that. Don't try and involve me in your religion, I ain't havin' it. Got my own, thanks.

It should be an obvious boundary, but I think it's a bit non-obvious and worth pointing out.

Etiology of trans fascinates me, it does. I think we get hung up on this a fair bit... I certainly have written about this a bit here, but, getting on, why should we need etiological understanding to deal with these people in a proper Kantian fashion? In governance?

I can apply a secular model to them--they hate this--but I'll be damned if it isn't the right political answer. You can't build their halcyon rights end-game on religion in the West. You have to build it on a secular, sex research model. The route they're following is going to fall flat-faced and get bloodied. Nothing they're doing is rational. It's all faith-based.

In religious talk, they're not absolved of their wrong-doing, but I have a hard time holding people responsible when they're only faced with shit choices.

Remove the shit choice, welcome responsibility. Secular accountability.

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[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah, gender ideology is basically a nontheistic religion that centers around the concept of the "spiritual self" and how to attain that self. But people don't see it because they use terms like "gender identity" instead of "soul" and "transfeminine/transmasculine" instead of "female/male energy". You can really see it in how some TRA's act like coming out as trans is like being spiritually reborn, with the old self being "dead". Like the whole concept of "dead-naming" is kind of creepy in how religious sounding it is.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, gender ideology is basically a nontheistic religion that centers around the concept of the "spiritual self" and how to attain that self.

That's an interesting, useful way to put it. I don't know enough about religion categorization to know whether it qualifies as a religion per se, but at least it seems like a set of spiritual beliefs.

You can really see it in how some TRA's act like coming out as trans is like being spiritually reborn, with the old self being "dead"

Yup, exactly.

[–]kwallio 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To me it seems like they think that transitioning is a sort of rebirth, like they hate their 'dead name" and given the number of criminals who transition and then take great pains to distance themselves from their past they clearly view it as a spiritual rebirth as well. Like pointing out that someone doing a reading to children is actually a convicted felon is just ~rude~.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They(transmeds at least) believe in trans(pardon the pun)scending their biological sex and morphing into their perfect gender form(a idealized construct in their minds). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if many also believed in things like attaining "higher vibrations" or new agey stuff like that and perhaps waiting on the coming of the comet that would bring them into a higher plane of existence. When expectations are set so fantastically high for transition it's no wonder that it so often ends up in one place.

Also, many non-theistic religions still have a deity in some other form, it's just not anthropomorphized and seen as a deity. But it is worshiped like one.

[–]HelloMomo 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I would phrase it more simply:

How do would you test for a "gender identity"? And remember, this must be a falsifiable and evidence-based type scientific test.

If you cannot test it in this manner, then it belongs in the realm of religion.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A woman of science, I see.

This is where I got mired, because I can quantitatively and qualitatively test for autogynephilia using Kurt Freund's technique, such that I didn't see the forest for the trees.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Haven't checked in much recently but sure glad I did in time to see this.

I can apply a secular model to them--they hate this--but I'll be damned if it isn't the right political answer. You can't build their halcyon rights end-game on religion in the West. You have to build it on a secular, sex research model. The route they're following is going to fall flat-faced and get bloodied. Nothing they're doing is rational. It's all faith-based.

Yes. Exactly. And I think this is what so many people, at least the people I have personally talked to IRL, don't understand about the gay rights movement. Same-sex attraction (homosexuality, bisexuality) is a phenomenon that exists in nature. It doesn't exist based on faith alone, it's observable and it's natural. It doesn't require action from anybody, it exists in the face of inaction. Nobody in the gay rights movement made a straight person enter a same-sex marriage, but people in the transgender rights movement (try to) make straight people use male pronouns for a woman and female pronouns for a man.

I really appreciate you making a post about this, it's an underappreciated point and one that I think will be important to communicate (especially to straight people), in order to defend LGB rights in the long run.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Someone's comment on another thread recently brought me to the same conclusion.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, just when I thought I couldn't "peak-trans" any more, I realize that everything revolving around gender ideology are things that we've all seen before. It's not new. Were they worshiping a deity, then we'd all have twigged a lot sooner.

It's fascinating though, we're watching the development of a novel, serious religion in real-time. One that has real proponents, and real power. I assumed this sort of thing only happened in history.

There's no figurehead yet, like a Jesus Christ, or a Muhammad.

The world's first online, crowd-sourced religion (or at least one of any note.)

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's no figurehead yet

Likely because there are many figureheads: We could argue that pathological narcissism is a form of autotheism.

And we have definitely seen all of this before, you are right. Complete with purges.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's fascinating though, we're watching the development of a novel, serious religion in real-time. One that has real proponents, and real power. I assumed this sort of thing only happened in history.

Yep!! I mean, there have been little, failed religions throughout history that were very popular for brief moments (by "brief" I mean decades) that have been largely forgotten by most people. I'm not sure if you've heard of the US's burned-over district in New York state, but there are some similar, fascinating stories of religions that had their moment in that area.

The world's first online, crowd-sourced religion (or at least one of any note.)

Lol, thank you, internet.