ColonizationWhy does every post about how lesbians are "losing" trans men also completely ignore the fact that butch, masc, and gnc trans women are "arriving?"

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[–]hufflepuff-poet 23 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

"Why are lesbians upset at the loss of proud butch lesbians, shouldn't they be grateful the butches are being replaced with straight men in dresses who refuse to stop harassing lesbians?"

So fucking stupid, I can't wait for this movement to fall apart 😭🙄

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Trans awareness is a net benefit for everyone. Yeah, nah.

[–]censorshipment[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why does every post about how lesbians are "losing" trans men also completely ignore the fact that butch, masc, and gnc trans women are "arriving?"

Like I get that trans men and transmasc folks were more rooted in butch spaces pre-transition, but it's not a zero-sum game between trans awareness and butchness! I don't really agree with the idea that someone having a greater understanding of themself is a loss in any way, but even if it were, you are also gaining people too!

Trans awareness is a net benefit for everyone, especially in butch spaces. Butch communities are safe, welcoming spaces for many transmasc folks before they come out, and who get to live happier, more authentic lives. Butch communities are also the destination for many masc transfem folks, who would never have been able to understand themselves and never would have arrived without the broader understanding of trans issues.

The topic is being framed as "losing" afab trans people, but then saying amab trans people dont really count/ignoring them entirely. Consider what that framing really says about the rigidity of gender, and consider who benefits from it.

Pretty sure this was in response to a reported/removed post...

Does anyone else feel stung when a butch transitions? - https://www.reddit.com/r/butchlesbians/comments/pow4l8/does_anyone_else_feel_stung_when_a_butch/

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This comment in the thread by a "butch lesbian transwoman" sums up everything wrong with the trans movement:

As a trans woman I will say that talking about my past or my experiences, whether I am speaking to things that are the same about all women or all lesbians or all butches, or different about us, is my business, for me to do on my time, when I feel safe. My situation at birth and the effect it has had on me is not for anyone to point out or discuss other than me, in any way ever, unless I ask them to, full fucking stop.

If this is "a conversation that needs to happen" and cis people want to have it then their only option is to try and make us feel safe enough overall that we can breach the topic and we can lead the discussion. Forcing this conversation on us or having a cis person lead is the problem. Not the topic itself.

So, if you, as a trans person, want to discuss how you feel, then you are allowed. My question, since I am allowed this stage too, is "why are we talking about it?" I have no problem sharing my intimate life experiences with people I trust and friends, regardless of their gender/sexuality status. But as you said, you do that too so it's not that you don't have an outlet.

What are we gaining by generalizing the unbelievably varied trans experience in public?

What are we trying to do by "having this conversation"?

He really can't see why women who've lived as gnc their whole lives might want to talk about their experiences as females, as people that went through female socialization and sex-based oppression, as homosexual women in a straight world. His comment reframes it all about "cis vs trans" instead of the material realities of living as males or females. He also individualizes it all, and makes it all about "personal experience" without recognizing that women talking about these issues are recognizing similarities as community or a class and relating to others.

He demands we don't talk amongst ourselves unless he leads and frames the whole conversation to suit him. This is the entire problem with males "identifying" as lesbians. They don't know what the fuck they, or we, are talking about but demand we shut up for their sake

[–]totallyathrowaway87 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No. He can't. He didn't live it. He may have lived as a gnc man, but not a gnc woman. He'd rather think he knows more than he really does.

Trans men do it too. I mean I guess we all do it, often just not on matters that impact others quite so much.

They dont understand and they dont understand that they don't understand.

That's typical, real, dunning-kruger. Not internet meme "haha ur dum" dunning-kruger. I feel like this in specific is an example of why it's bad.

If only people would stop assuming being a gnc man gives you insight into being a gnc woman. Or that being TQ gives you insight into being LGB.