DiscussionHave they considered that treating LGB students like regular people will make them feel accepted and safe though?

submitted by julesburm1891 from (self.LGBDropTheT)

I came across this poorly-written article today. From what it sounds like, one Oregon school district is attempting to stop teachers from hanging Pride and BLM flags in their classrooms. The article was also unclear, but seemed to imply, that these flags are at least strongly encouraged to be displayed in Oregon public schools.

This leaves me wondering several things. What on earth does Pride have to do with BLM? Why would anyone in their right mind claim they need a special flag to feel safe or learn at school? Why is it controversial to suggest that maybe we should focus on education in schools instead of sexuality and an overt political organization?

Y’all, what planet do we even live on anymore? All I ever wanted growing up was for being gay to not be a big deal. My teenage dream was to be out and no one give a damn. I just don’t understand why we constantly have to have our differences magnified and plastered everywhere now.

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[–]Q-Continuum-kin 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Tokenism.

You know... Back in the 80s and 90s we had a different type of tokenism where they would put 1 of each random race on a poster. Like captain planet but on everything. It was to encourage diversity by encouraging everyone to work together as equals.it was kind of annoying and tropey but it was a good message.

Tokenism now is like this weird elevation of x y or z minority group up as some kind of religious idol. There's almost no real message behind any of it other than idolatry of a flag or something.

The captain planet tokenism had a moral virtue of equality. This stuff has idolatry of narcissism presented as moral virtue and the followers perceive themselves to gain power by holding up these pseudo religious idols.

[–]slushpilot 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

United Colors of Benetton was a truly great campaign for its time though. It was unique and stood out for celebrating everyone with equal billing on their giant display ads. It wasn't really tokenism, when the point was that everyone was presented as equal, and so boldly.

The problem is when everyone tries to copycat such a unique brand, poorly, or else tries to position some people as better than others.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Anyone who wants to say that Pride flags and BLM flags are not political symbols is lying (possibly to themselves, definitely to everyone else). While their presence may not directly harm any white and/or heterosexual students, their presence is absolutely 100% based on politics and political reasoning.

And anyone who can't look at the state of US politics today and see that it is overwhelmingly divisive... well, I have no hope. When we have people on both ends of the political spectrum that want to literally kill everyone on the other side, when a topic like wearing or not wearing a face mask is politically charged enough to cause people to physically assault other people, when people are being censored for having the "wrong" opinion about something, you can't say that hanging up a BLM flag or a Pride flag (especially if it's that stupid Progress Pride flag) isn't making a statement.

Whether I agree with the statement being made or not, whether any parent or child agrees with the statement being made or not, that isn't the issue. These kids do not need to be turned into political pawns by anyone from either side of the aisle. The schools need to be a neutral ground.

That counselor shares stories of students that were expelled from their homes (ostensibly for their sexual orientation) and of a black student that was physically and verbally assaulted (presumably just for being black, although that's not directly stated). Did that happen while these flags were up in schools? A student who is made homeless for being gay is not going to find comfort in a rainbow flag being hung up at his school. A student who is attacked by other students for being black is not going to find comfort in a BLM flag. For that matter, the parents that expel that student from their home, the bullies who attack that student for being black, they aren't going to be stopped by some flags in the school.

When I was in high school, being physically and verbally assaulted for being gay, did I find myself wishing that the school would hang up some Pride flags? No, I found myself wishing that I hadn't been born gay because life would have been a lot easier. If anything, seeing the school hanging up some flags and saying, "Welp, problem solved!" would have pissed me off more than getting bullied because flags don't stop bullies.

And I can definitely see a case for some homophobic asshole kid going into his school and seeing Pride flags all over the place and thinking, "Man I hate those fucking gays, always shoving it in my face!" and going on a bullying spree just based on that alone.

All of that said, I do take a little bit of issue with the dress code thing. If kids want to express their politics through their clothes (and reap whatever consequences come from that, positive or negative), then they should be allowed to do that. But that also necessarily means that, while one kid should be allowed to wear a "Trans Rights Are Human Rights" shirt, another kid should be allowed to wear an "It's Okay To Be Cis" shirt, and neither of them should face any consequences other than the social consequences of their peers.

[–]our_team_is_winning 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When I was in high school, being physically and verbally assaulted for being gay, did I find myself wishing that the school would hang up some Pride flags? No, I found myself wishing that I hadn't been born gay because life would have been a lot easier. If anything, seeing the school hanging up some flags and saying, "Welp, problem solved!" would have pissed me off more than getting bullied because flags don't stop bullies.

I would HATE to be a schoolkid now. I imagine them having long discussions about the flag and the teacher saying, "We all know people who are gay" and then my classmates all pointing at me and calling out my name.

Not saying teens shouldn't be out and proud if they're ready, but for a lot of young people (my Gen X anyway), it was very personal and difficult and the LAST thing you needed was to be officially labelled in school. What teenager wants to constantly be referred to as "one of our lesbian students"?

We know, however, that the Genderspecials want that constantly. For SSA people, I don't think that's a calling card. "Hello. My name is ____. I'm gay!"

The dream of seeing each person as an individual just gets further and further away.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

when a topic like wearing or not wearing a face mask is politically charged enough to cause people to physically assault other people

Saw a person try to assault an employee for enforcing a mask mandate today! It's ridiculous how heated basic public health has become in America.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The school board voted Tuesday evening, four to three, to enact a ban on those flags, and any broadly “political” signs, clothing and other items, with the board’s three-member policy committee set to outline what constitutes “political.”

That’s all that matters, they don’t want political messaging in schools, and it’s a good policy.

[–]slushpilot 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

what constitutes “political.”

Hey, if it's got its own flag it's political. Pretty simple. You don't need a committee to figure that out.

[–]JulienMayfair 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree. I think schools need to be focusing on teaching students basic subjects and skills (including logical thinking skills) instead of trying to use schools as crude tools for social engineering. In many school districts in the United States, we have shockingly low numbers of students able to pass standard reading comprehension and math tests, and the price of these failures to develop students' potential is paid by the entire culture.

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think schools need to be focusing on teaching students basic subjects and skills

Not with the new "equity" policies -- basics are racist and must go, especially math apparently.

Instead, the whole day's lessons are about Wokeness and White-shaming.

Communist China must be laughing their asses off.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Communist China isn't given to laughing, but they see these things going on in western institutions and they take careful notes for the next time America lectures them about something.

China more or less does whatever the fuck it wants, but it's undeniable that when people in the West point fingers at China's internet censorship or overreaching government control of... everything, the Chinese can point at things like the UK government's 'Online Harms Bill' or Silicon Valley's censorship of politically inconvenient media stories (like whatever Hunter Biden is currently up to) and be entirely justified by saying 'Well, yes. We do censor things. To keep people safe. But at least here the government is doing it, not capitalist corporations.'

[–]JoeyJoeJoe 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What does Pride have to do with BLM? Division. There's big money & geopolitical interests behind this whole thing.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It has nothing to do with it. Just like how it has nothing to do with these things. Visible minorities easily get exploited politically(yes even by other minorities).

Flags like this in classrooms are pretty useless to help anyone. More for ideological virtue signalling. It reminds me of the corporate profile pics on social media in June. Yeah, they should probably ban them. I consider it very much like having religious symbols in schools. But some people have a blind spot to this obvious parallel because it scratches the itch of their particular political bias.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Even as asexual I just don't find it a center of my person. I am really confused why people make their sexuality and gender a center of themselves. This is what I fail to understand with these non-dysphoric "trans" people. If you aren't dysphoric why do I have to still think of your pronouns, new name and shit? "Cuz I will kill myself" well duh you said you're a non-dysphoric "trans" person so you won't. I only understand making your sexuality a bigger chunk of yourself when you become an activist but when it's no longer needed it's just trying to find something interesting in your boring self.