all 33 comments

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 18 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

"How would I rewrite the show"

No, they wouldn't.

TV shows in general aren't only subordinated to the desires and priorities of the writer, but of the network as well.

If they say you can't write x you can't write x, end of story.

Wokesters have so little understanding about reality.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaclownfish is a clown or a fish? || Febfem 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That is why I like how Dumbledor was presented - he was just a regular normal person who just happens to be gay, it was never focused on it in story and he was not shown as some "special snowflake" or "perverted freak" like LGB is depicted in media in most cases. Almost like to be gay you need to "look and act gay", and not just like same sex as yourself.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think the issue with Dumbledore is that it feels like he was retroactively made gay. Naturally, it would've been awful if he was "media gay", but the fact that Rowling announced it once the books were done and dusted makes it feel a little disingenuous.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaclownfish is a clown or a fish? || Febfem 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, true. That's why I think it would be better if she did it mid way. That he was asexual is understandable, as he was this old.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seem to recall that it wasn't actually retconning, though: the screen adaptations were going to depict Dumbledore as having once been in love with a woman, so Rowling just told them that wasn't possible, because he's gay. Which then got made public. But it sounds as though she was simply doing what the studio had hired her to do: keep the films at least reasonably faithful to the books. By not straightwashing a gay character, for example. And that seems perfectly fine to me. (Full disclosure: have never been much of a Potterhead myself.)

[–]kwallio 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When the book talked about his friendship to Grindelwald I 100% thought he was gay. When JK said that he was it was no surprise. If you read the books closely (especially book 7) it was obvious.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

What gay cartoons are there? And yes, the snowflakes have to analyze a show to death, picking it apart.

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The Owl House has a canon lesbian couple. But it also has a canon "non-binary" character, so that sort of turned me off wanting to watch it.

Helluva boss has the main male character in a relationship with another male. But the story pacing is kind of awkward IMO and it's a raunchy adult cartoon where the main characters are demons and assassins. So. Ehn.

[–]SillyGoose 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If it helps at all, the "non-binary" character in the Owl House doesn't seem to be super important. Said character was in one episode and mentioned in another, so unless that changes with upcoming episodes, I would still recommend the show personally. Plus, the character is never explicitly called non-binary or anything, so if you can get past "they" pronouns being used a couple times it isn't a big deal.

[–]Mermer[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

"What gay cartoons are there?" She-ra, The Owl House, Legend of Korra, Harley Quinn. These are the ones I watch but even cartoons without representation are considered to be a gay interest so I share the fan base with a lot of snowflakes, unfortunately.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Isn’t she ra the one where they made her a guy? Or am I confused...

[–]Mermer[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What? I don't think so

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I guess someone said she looks male then, not like the 80’s cartoon. She looks like a teen now.

[–]Mermer[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well, she's buff in her She Ra form I guess, but she's very much a woman and very much gay.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ok ill check it out

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol is that the reasoning?

Woman who has muscles because of magic UwU must be trons...

[–]spicebutton 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Because a character being gay or lesbian is not progress for them since homophobia and representation dont concern them. They use the gay and lesbian community (because no other people would entertain them) to push for their own identities under the guise of "we're all in it together", even though gays and lesbians have to serve them the most.

So the straight gender specials will begrudingly accept a lesbian or gay character but it better be an asexual (to accommodate the straight girls), a trans (for the transbians), in a wheelchair (to accommodate the disabled who, im guessing most of you are unaware, but theyre slowly starting to identify as queer).

So in the end, the only representation gays and lesbians get is this: A black "lesbian" with no arms or legs, in a wheelchair, who's also trans and also asexual. And this representation is somehow supposed to enrich our culture and relate to young gay and lesbian kids. This is what intersectionalism is.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Curious, do you have any examples? I think I've seen this behavior before that you're talking about, but I'm not very familiar with the cartoon world. Are you talking like TV cartoons or web cartoons or what?

More broadly, some fandoms seem extremely possessive of certain ideas or portrayals of a creator's own characters, to the point where the harass and threaten the creators to make the fandom's popular conceptions become part of the story canon.

[–]julesburm1891 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Legend of Korra?

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have heard of that one, I have had a few people recommend it to me but have never been much of a cartoon person. Now I am tempted to go look up examples of the kind of behavior OP's talking about with Legend of Korra, lol.

[–]Mermer[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I watch a lot of cartoons and It happens quite often but what triggers me is Miraculous Ladybug fandom. I don't know why would someone watch a show just to complain about it and I literally need to argue with someone if I state that I like the show and I think it's good. There's literally a video on YouTube called "How would I rewrite Miraculous" but I haven't watched it all because it's just a gender snowflake talking about things she doesn't like about the show. I feel very bad for the creator but I admire him dearly for how he sticks up to his work and opinions and how he's amune to the herassment. ("Woke" people tried to push a Muslim character into the show)

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Will take a look, interesting. That sounds very frustrating. I feel you though, there are a couple video games which I never talk about with people because I know the fanbases are really toxic, lol.

[–]boypower 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

It is very evident that in the topic of gay representation, actual LGB people have no say in that discussion, whether it's praise or criticism. Most discussion seem to center around gender specials, trans people, '' queers '', spicyhets and other radical woke activists. Not only are we LGB people rarely the demographic content creators and artists are trying to reach with their LGB characters, we also seem to have very little power in the entire topic of representation overall.

With that said, most cartoons completely suck at handling gay male characters and sideline them to irrelevant nobodies or their sexuality get Dumbledore'd, all because parents, executives and the suits can't stop thinking about anal sex when they see gay men in cartoons, and thus think it's inappropriate.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

because parents, executives and the suits can't stop thinking about anal sex when they see gay men in cartoons, and thus think it's inappropriate

Yep, if there's something I think about every time I see every straight couple, it's them doing it /s

[–]ZveroboyAlinaclownfish is a clown or a fish? || Febfem 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

To be honest on russian forums I often see something like "love between two women is pure and sensual, while love between two men is kneading of clay", so it is true to some extend.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I often see something like "love between two women is pure and sensual,

Which is infantilizing and an example of benevolent sexism, in my opinion... "Women are Wonderful" effect

[–]ZveroboyAlinaclownfish is a clown or a fish? || Febfem 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I prefer Dumbledore way than how it usually are. Thought, it would be much better if it was revealed somewhere in the middle of story, when people already established that character in their head.

In cartoons it is often "licensing" problems too. Clearest example is Adventure Time. There two characters were clear lesbians, but it was never named directly until the very last episode, where they kissed - because show was airing in Russia, Turkey and few muslim countries, so they were not wanting to lose audience there by gettign show banned, so they waited until the very last episode, which was not shown in those countries.

Them wanting more money makes them censor shows or depict LGB as they are depicted in those countries - as perverted freaks (in Turkey and Russia anti-gay propaganda is showing transwomen from Pride's and saying "it is how people becoming gay and it is what gays are").

[–]boypower 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah I can't say I do, the Dumbledore way is literally '' It's fine if you're gay, just don't shove it down my throat and don't show interest in the same sex! ''

I know it's a censorship issue, but gay male characters are still treated different than lesbians in kids cartoons even outside of that, as gay men are inherently seen as hypersexual and predatory, while that kind of stigma isn't really that much present in lesbians. This adds another layer of discomfort when it comes to adding gay males into series aimed at children. Still, maybe the inclusion of lesbians in children's media will open the door for gays... eventually.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's rarely lesbians though. More often than not, it's usually one bisexual woman and a lesbian, or two bisexual women. Rarely just lesbians. I remember everyone fawning over the 'lesbian relationship' in Korra, when both women had established relationships with the same guy.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaclownfish is a clown or a fish? || Febfem 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think main stigma with gay men is still coming from two sides - first is fear of losing sales, and second is that wokes are seeing gays in very homophobic way. Plus wokes are promoting the idea that gay men are all very focused on sex and wearing bdsm costumes. I still remember when in USA Democrates removed politician because he "was not really representing gay people" - as he "was not looking gay". That man was just normal looking lawyer in suite, but seems for them gay is "way of life" (identity) and not sexual orientation.

In cases with lesbians it is mostly bisexual women, who have, had or will have interest in male characters. And even if those are real lesbians, - it is mostly seen in movies - then they are often either raped or have some other relationship with men, like "forced marriage", etc.

Lesbians are oversexualized in majority of cases and there to get more attention from male audience. In japanese animation there even more kinds of this, especially with something like "Yuri bait" - when two women or teen girls are shown as almost girlfriend and in almost intimate relationship, but in the end they will both end without any real relationship between each other and dating men. Thought korean media have the opposite "gay bait", when two androgynous "non-threatening looking" young men are doing same as in "Yuri bait" (I wonder if that is the reason why so many transmen who are harassing gays are listening k-op?).

[–]Mermer[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I highly recommend watching The Owl House, it outdoes itself with representation. Two female characters that are crutial to the story casually start a wholesome relationship while also being their own characters. I overflow with joy everytime they say "girlfriend" in the show and it's only the beginning of season 2 so we have a lot more gay to look forward to!

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

as gay men are inherently seen as hypersexual and predatory

Will say, this stereotype has also affected gay women too, unfortunately. And bisexual women as well. (Bisexual men just don't get any rep period, lol.)

[–]Rage-Xion 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hate the toxicity of woke fandom who wants to project their gender identity ideology on characters because they don't conform to stereotype. A good example is Pidge from Voltron, a girl who dresses as a boy for plot related reasons. Yet for many, that means she's totally trans or non-binary (if not both).