HomophobiaHomophobia directed at Tom Daley, gay British Olympic diver, by Kremlin-backed Rossiya 1 network, Russia's official Tokyo 2020 broadcaster - The Telegraph

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[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

direct article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/08/07/diving-tokyo-olympics-2020-live-tom-daley-gb-final/

I wanted to share this because:

  1. It's an example of blatant homophobia. Still thriving. From the article:

The International Olympic Committee has launched an investigation into homophobic comments by the Kremlin-backed Rossiya 1 network, the country’s official Tokyo 2020 broadcaster, against LGBT athletes at the Games. Daley has found his sexuality mocked in comparisons with his Russian rival Aleksandr Bondar, contrasted by Moscow pundits as a “normal guy”.

Notice the stereotype: "Being gay is bad because it's abnormal." - Russian homophobic TV commentators. Simultaneously, Western liberal media outlets like to call us "queer"-- a word that literally means, "strange, odd, abnormal, in a negative way," ALL THE TIME. Can't these "open-minded" liberals see how they are reinforcing a negative stereotype about homosexuality??? It's the exact same thing!

  1. It's an example of the socially conserviative "all LGBT is all perversion" mentality that some anti-LGB people have. From the article:

In Rossiya 1’s Olympic coverage, members of the LGBT community have been referred to as “dirt”, “perverts” and “psychopaths”. In a conversation about Laurel Hubbard, the first openly transgender weightlifter from New Zealand, Alexei Zhuravlev, a Russian MP, said: “We stand opposed to all this profanity and perversion. We stand against this scum.”

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Good find. As a lifelong homo and fan of the Olympics, I appreciate posts like this.

Simultaneously, Western liberal media outlets like to call us "queer"-- a word that literally means, "strange, odd, abnormal, in a negative way," ALL THE TIME. Can't these "open-minded" liberals see how they are reinforcing a negative stereotype about homosexuality??? It's the exact same thing!

But I think this is a misunderstanding of the QT position. Old school homophobes see abnormality as bad but QT sees it as good; and not just good in the "let's celebrate our differences" way, but in the sense of infusing abnormality with moral superiority and moral authority. That's why they lean into queerness; they think it's ethically better and/or recognize it as an avenue to power. Both groups conflate statistical abnormality with deviance, but critical theorists and their acolytes see that as a good thing.

The middle position, the truly liberal position, views abnormality as neutral in and of itself, understanding that while deviance is always abnormal, the abnormal isn't always deviant. This is the place we (I'm speaking as an American, but this applies to plenty of other cultures as well) had finally fucking arrived at in the early aughts and sadly only got to enjoy for a decade or so before we got hijacked.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Both groups conflate statistical abnormality with deviance, but critical theorists and their acolytes see that as a good thing.

Yes, that is true, I'm aware of that. But, at the same time:

  1. Many people in the TQ+ movement do, in fact, shame deviance, even though the core tenet of Queer Theory is to glorify deviance/otherness. They are hypocrites, in that sense. For example: many FtM "gay transmen" speak disparagingly of "cis gays" and invoke stereotypes, throw slurs such as the f-slur, etc. at gay men in the exact same fashion as do "old-school" homophobes. Even though the belief system of a conservative religious homophobe may differ from this belief of Queer Theory, a lot of the people who claim to believe in Queer Theory actually hold many of the same beliefs, stereotypes, etc. from the "old school" belief system. Put shorter, many people use Queer Theory as a front for good old-fashioned homophobia.

  2. The very idea that homosexuality is abnormal, whether or not you believe that abnormality is good or bad, is itself homophobic. We gain nothing by trading one type of homophobia for another. It is statistically uncommon, of course, but there is no value judgment made by observing that fact. I think people (maybe you and I, and also liberal homophobes and conservative homophobes) often mean different things when they say "abnormal;" many people have a negative connotation with the word, or at least an immediate value judgment.

This is the place we (I'm speaking as an American, but this applies to plenty of other cultures as well) had finally fucking arrived at in the early aughts and sadly only got to enjoy for a decade or so before we got hijacked.

Unfortunately, I was too young and deep in the closet/denial then to enjoy it, lol. Always interests me to hear the perspective of people who got to watch that era from a more active standpoint, though!

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

For example: many FtM "gay transmen" speak disparagingly of "cis gays" and invoke stereotypes, throw slurs such as the f-slur, etc. at gay men in the exact same fashion as do "old-school" homophobes.

With stuff like this though the accusation is always that we are too conservative (too normative, too indoctrinated in white colonialism, too closed-minded), not that we are deviant. It's like when people accused Pete Buttigieg of not being gay enough.

I agree that a lot of the behavior is the same. I just also think it's important to understand the very different endgames: conservation vs revolution.

Edit:

I think people (maybe you and I, and also liberal homophobes and conservative homophobes) often mean different things when they say "abnormal;" many people have a negative connotation with the word, or at least an immediate value judgment.

Yeah, the words are definitely loaded and since your post was about a quote that used these words and their functional antonyms, I admit I took this on a tangent.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

With stuff like this though the accusation is always that we are too conservative (too normative, too indoctrinated in white colonialism, too closed-minded), not that we are deviant.

Always? That's not true. I totally get where you're coming from, I've seen TQ+ people throw those accusations that are based on a hierarchy of oppression/privilege. In some social circles, that may be the most common type of criticism.

But there are a lot of people on the left who still see homosexuality as deviant. I've met people like this IRL, but to give a concrete example, some kink advocates push for Pride parades to be kink-friendly because they view same-sex relationships as inherently kinky, deviant, or "other." Post about this topic (archive link)

If we want our children to learn and grow from their experiences at Pride, we should hope that they’ll encounter kink when they attend. How else can they learn about the scope and vitality of queer life?

I point this out because with some forms of kink, or paraphilias, the idea of degeneracy or of participating in something shameful is a fundamental part of the appeal. For example, men with autogynephilia often find the idea of imagining themselves to be women as appealing specifically because they think being a woman is itself degrading. The stereotypes they believe about women are very similar to those believed by "old-school" sexists. Similarly, an FtM who disparages a gay man for being effeminate or for being a bottom (I have seen this on AGB multiple times) is doing the same thing.

But, that is all pretty into the weeds. Anyway, I am glad you liked the article, thanks for taking a look.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But there are a lot of people on the left who still see homosexuality as deviant.

Definitely. I think they see us as apostates, people whose alliance they feel they are owed since they assume kink is our common denominator.

I point this out because with some forms of kink, or paraphilias, the idea of degeneracy or of participating in something shameful is a fundamental part of the appeal.

Yep. This is why degeneracy as a slippery slope is not a fallacy. It always needs a new ceiling. Kink + political activism is an unfortunate alliance.

[–]ThrowMeAway2879 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

In Rossiya 1’s Olympic coverage, members of the LGBT community have been referred to as “dirt”, “perverts” and “psychopaths”.

Ah, good ol' traditional homophobia. I'm getting nostalgic for the 90s. Oh... wait, that wouldn't have been allowed on the air in the 90s. 1960s?

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seems like back then everyone knew but just never mentioned it.