Indoctrination / Doublethinkwoke or no?

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[–]our_team_is_winning 20 insightful - 17 fun20 insightful - 16 fun21 insightful - 17 fun -  (0 children)

According to Cheyenne M. Davis (she/they), a sex writer and founder of Unveild, a sex and kink publication for Black and Brown folx,

and I'm out

[–][deleted] 23 insightful - 7 fun23 insightful - 6 fun24 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Following the resurgence of the “Am I a Lesbian” Masterdoc

The thing that's mostly about attraction to men that was written by a bisexual woman? That hasn't been thrown in the trash yet?

[–][deleted] 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The author seems to have forgotten that the author of "Am I A Lesbian" masterdoc came out as bisexual ... no surprise to any of us here.

Matatas says that comphet often functions in tangent with other systems of oppression, like racism, ableism, fatphobia, and classism.

“When we create any kind of hierarchy, it inevitably supports other hierarchies in society,” she says. “Compulsory heterosexuality is rooted in white colonial masculinity, where systems of white supremacy and patriarchy support the idea that heterosexuality and the gender binary are the norm.

Yes u/xandit, woke.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Compulsory heterosexuality is rooted in white colonial masculinity, where systems of white supremacy and patriarchy support the idea that heterosexuality and the gender binary are the norm.

Uh, well, it's not just an idea that heterosexuality is the norm-- it IS the norm! And by a wide margin, at that; the vast majority of people are straight. And I say this as a non-heterosexual myself! Now, we shouldn't mistake its being the norm for being normal (which would make homosexuality and bisexuality abnormal), certainly, but there's no doubt that heterosexuality is the most common sexual orientation. That'd be true even if all straight-passing gay and bi people quit the closet for good.

As for the "gender binary": 1.] gender is determined by biological sex, which is binary in humans, so, yes, this is indeed the norm across cultures and throughout history; and 2.] gender is not only make-believe nonsense, but the basis for the oppression of women and same-sex-attracted people, so who gives a shit about it anyway?

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We shouldn't mistake its being the norm for being normal (which would make homosexuality and bisexuality abnormal), certainly, but there's no doubt that heterosexuality is the most common sexual orientation.

Hey, I said pretty much the same thing in my comment. I wonder: do they not understand the difference or are they leveraging the ambiguity for political aims?

[–]Dromedary 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, it's totally political bullshit. Clickbaity trendy shit for Yahoo. To look woke and "enlightened" but it's part of the denial of reality that suffuses the whole anti-intellectual "Queer" movement. As PenseePansy says, heterosexuality IS the norm; we gays are the exception, and very rock n' roll that way, lol. The new ideology just deperatelt tries to push that everyone is bisexual and genderfluid and that's simply not true for 99% of humanity, but.. we're in a very strange time.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth)[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

See I agree that heterosexuality is the norm, by a large percentage, but is there any merit in the idea that things like couples are discussed in terms of heterosexuals only? This article is wrapped in woke, but a lot of people believe in the underlying premise. I can see that for a lot of countries in the world where it’s pushed on everyone, lgb included.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I think this is, unfortunately, quite pervasive: "the norm" here tends to be misunderstood as "normal", and "most people are heterosexual" as "assume everyone IS heterosexual (or, given that it's normal, at least ought to be)". Which, even when it isn't downright pushed on gay and bi people (as it often is), still feels pretty oppressive. Always being an afterthought. At best.

There's a bi-specific form of this, actually: when we have an opposite-sex partner, we're both automatically assumed to be straight. Even if NEITHER of us is. And even if people are aware that bisexuality is a thing. I mean, you'd think that the possibility would at least occur to them, right? But no! It pretty much never does. 1 man + 1 woman = 2 heteros. That's Straight Assumption Math for ya.

Sure, I know that, statistically, odds are this is a straight couple. But can't everyone balance this with the knowledge that... individuals aren't statistics? Mere probabilities? So they wouldn't keep expecting every person to be hetero?

Is that really so much to ask?

[–]Rage-Xion 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

27 q-slurs in the article. Great.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right? It's just everywhere. I guess that's what we get when straight people think it's OK to start throwing slurs around left and right, now that gay marriage is legalized in (SOME, not all) places...

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

These people--all of the intersectional left, probably--conflate statistical norms with normative prescriptivism.

This

the notion that heterosexuality is the only valid sexuality

does not follow from this

everyone should be/is expected to be straight

You can acknowledge the latter, the fact that most people are oriented towards the opposite sex, without believing or enforcing the former. We have already done so; the common understanding of these two statements as related but fundamentally discrete was a major underpinning of gay marriage legalization.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These people--all of the intersectional left, probably--conflate statistical norms

Personal anecdote, the staff at a lgbt center came after me for this once. I said gays aren't normal and it caused all kinds of consternation. It was really weird like they were trying to bully me into seeing myself as normal and asking why I thought so negatively of myself. Like they were basically accusing me of wrongthink but trying to spin as positive motivation.

Some engineering major happened to be there and came to help convince the staff that i didn't actually hate myself and the other gays at the center.

These people get so hung up on emotional attachments to words, it's so weird.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

“compulsory heterosexuality” is the notion that heterosexuality is the only valid sexuality and that everyone should be/is expected to be straight.

“It is harmful to queer, trans, and/or non-cisgender folk,” they say.

Ok what the fuckkkk. This idea of compulsory heterosexuality affects gays, your queer bullshit isn't a sexuality. Your queer and trans bullshit is woke homophobia and is literally a form of compulsory heterosexuality many times.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your queer and trans bullshit is woke homophobia and is literally a form of compulsory heterosexuality many times.

Completely agree, this is important to point. LGB and gender-nonconforming people are pressured to identify as "transgender" and accept that they are really "a man in a woman's body/a woman in a man's body" and thus conform to society's expectations of what a "good" heterosexual looks like. s/TransTheGayAway making that sub is on my bucket list lol, and this is the perfect example of it.

For example, many parents would rather have a "trans straight daughter" than a "cis gay son" or a "trans straight son" than a "cis gay daughter".

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Following the resurgence of the “Am I a Lesbian” Masterdoc on TikTok, conversations about compulsory heterosexuality

Fyi that happened because the author came out as bi(and tbh after reading it again I'm waiting out that one as well).

The main problem with this Compulsory Heterosexuality(I hate the contraction of this term) concept is it's frequently misused to apply to heterosexuals who want to identify as anything other than. It's used as a absorb-all-scrutiny shield against suggestions that they are actually straight, identity enthusiasts. So after being accused of encouraging CH, people may just drop the issue, not wanting to be/seem bigoted and non-progressive. And thus it decreases the necessary gate-keeping.

I think there's validity to the original idea, though. Because straight as default/correct(Heteronormativity) is a thing. Like in the historical/literary context. How many people tend to think of the past that way and that same-sex attraction is something that didn't even exist until the latter half of the twentieth century as it was just a modern, "enlightened", social invention that only exists in very limited contexts. Like how there can be some pearl-clutching if someone were to even suggest characters from old writings and dead authors/historical figures were perhaps not heterosexual.

The same thing can be felt to those who come out of the closet as a complement to the homophobia they may experience. There can be some acute negative reaction like, "Well, that's just impossible! They clearly accepted that they are straight their entire life up until this very moment. What suddenly caused them to deny their straightness(must be some external influence)? Did I not teach them effectively about truth and reality? Not in my backyard!" And this can even be from people are very socially liberal. It hits different when it's your own friends or kin.

This legit kind of Compulsory Heterosexuality is of course nowadays mixed up with the gender woo woo with poisons any genuine discourse on the topic. What I'm saying is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater because some kwirs appropriated the term for their own ends.

tl;dr- From a woke source, with some good points about Compulsory Heterosexuality/Heteronormativity heavily polluted with gender identity garbage.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth)[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

tl;dr- From a woke source, with some good points about Compulsory Heterosexuality/Heteronormativity heavily polluted with gender identity garbage.

Yeah that’s what I kind of thought... they take it to the extreme though. I don’t think it wrong to accept that society tends to talk about sexuality in terms of the majority, but there’s something to the idea off compulsory in certain societies. Where you have to be hetero.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Effectively, woke. To be specific, "compulsory heterosexuality" is a term invented by radical feminists (edit: specifically Adrienne Rich) who wanted to push the homophobic idea of "political lesbians"-- that women can, and should, choose to become lesbian. Some radical feminists who believe in "political lesbians" and compulsory heterosexuality:

  • Adrienne Rich

  • Sheila Jeffreys

  • Julie Bindel

Some of these homophobic women claim to represent all lesbian women, but in reality they're a vocal minority of people who self-identify as "lesbian" and most lesbian women are (obviously) not radfems... we're homosexual women. I don't know what the fuck these radfems think they are playing at.

It is ironic that many trans rights activists encourage discussion of "compulsory heterosexuality" which is a radfem concept, while simultaneously saying, "Fuck T*RFS!" and "Fuck radical feminists!" In my opinion, it's the perfect example of horseshoe theory in action.