Homophobia"I want to date lesbians" is a valid reason for transition

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[–][deleted] 45 insightful - 1 fun45 insightful - 0 fun46 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So, straight dudes who want to date lesbians are valid trans women and lesbians are required to date trans women or we're transphobic?

And these people expect us to believe that they aren't just the same old straight men who've been harassing lesbians for years?

[–]DropItLikeItsHot 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Their transness gives them a stunning and brave pass to behave like entitled little shits, and ignore "no means no", apparently.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 37 insightful - 1 fun37 insightful - 0 fun38 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It takes a very mentally ill, totally disgusting, fucking loser of a man to be willing to focus all of his energy towards the only demographic of women who isn't interested in them, besides being one hell of a tiny minority of the population. But it's not a fetish /s

[–]MilkTea 29 insightful - 10 fun29 insightful - 9 fun30 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

Enjoy getting attention only from other transbians. Good luck!

[–]Retardation_station 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

But why? It's not like lesbians are a different kind of woman or something. They have all the same parts, from what I've heard.

What part of lesbianism is so appealing if it's not the woman?

If you're just a man who's interested in a woman, why complicate that?

[–][deleted] 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because lesbians told them no and their narcissism won't let that happen.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Their personality disorders drive them to want whatever it is they’re told they can’t have.

[–]Retardation_station 16 insightful - 10 fun16 insightful - 9 fun17 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

They can't drink bleach. No sir. Not allowed on my watch.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

But why? It's not like lesbians are a different kind of woman or something. They have all the same parts, from what I've heard.

What part of lesbianism is so appealing if it's not the woman?

If you're just a man who's interested in a woman, why complicate that?

In a word: "validation". Namely, of the AGP's fantasy that he's a woman.

If a bisexual (much less straight) woman is attracted to him, there's no "proof" that he's being perceived as a woman. Because neither is exclusively female-attracted. The former could be into his maleness; the latter would HAVE to be. (Well, really BOTH would have to be-- it's not as though bi women are gonna see him as anything other than male, after all-- but I mean in his mind.) So such women-- the only ones capable of finding him sexually desirable-- can't float his AGP boat.

Therefore, nothing other than a lesbian will do. Precisely because his being a man is a dealbreaker for her. Which is to say, the part of lesbianism that's so appealing isn't the woman herself... it's that female homosexuality makes her the ideal prop for his all-important "I'm-a-LAY-DEE" fetish.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

In a word: "validation". Namely, of the AGP's fantasy that he's a woman.

I actually think the AGP is secondary to the untreated NPD. Everyone has fantasies, plenty of which fall outside the norm. But making your sense of self contingent upon others' reinforcement of your self-image is textbook narcissism.

[–]Rag3 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s a perfect explanation.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That's a great observation. Perhaps the AGP men we sometimes talk about on this sub are actually, like, the worst 1-10% or so of AGP men and we talk about them more because their behavior is so narcissistic, but many other less narcissistic men have AGP tendencies as well.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thanks. Don't get me wrong, AGP can be destructive on its own. But that's a separate issue from being psychologically dependent on outside affirmation of one's ideal self-image, which is NPD plain and simple. A lot of male TRAs seem to be at the unholy intersection of both.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

A lot of male TRAs seem to be at the unholy intersection of both.

I've seen empirical research articles which suggest that personality disorders often cluster with multiple paraphilias. If you're interested, I can find a couple to link.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sure, could you post those? I have a guess, but I'm curious about whether paraphilias overlap with PDs in general or mostly with specific ones.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Okay, found a few links! Sorry for the delay.

  • Comment I made a few months ago, about whether a narcissistic style of argumentation among gender identity ideology believers, is possibly related to epidemiological studies that show personality disorders are much more common among transgender-identified population than those who don't identify as trans. (My comment links to 3 such studies, but there are more; go to Google Scholar and search "personality disorders transgender" or similar searches and you'll find more such studies.]. Bear in mind that the % varies depending on what population you're looking at; 6% is a TON for general population, for example.)

For example: Out of 73 transgender patients receiving SRS, 81% had at least one personality disorder, and 57% had narcissistic personality disorder (at the very least), with higher prevalence among transwomen. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/

Of 87 participants receiving "gender affirming treatments", approx. 50% diagnosed with one or more personality disorders. https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/5/1521

Among transgender people not necessarily receiving SRS: 6% of the trans people in the study diagnosed with one or more personality disorders, compared to 0.37% of cis people in the study. https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/trgh.2019.0029

Unofficial data: the Subreddit Overlaps website. It's a gem. For example, r/FtM has an odds ratio of about 6-7 for r/bpd, meaning that someone who posts/comments on r/FtM is 6 or 7 times more likely than the average redditor to also post/comment on r/bpd. (Here's a post I made breaking down some interesting trends among these communities; I made a couple mentions of personality disorders but didn't have time to take many notes about personality disorders in particular, too much other interesting stuff!)

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for putting this all together. As crazy as these numbers and correlations are, I'm honestly not surprised by any of it.

A couple things that stood out to me:

-the relatively low prevalence of BPD in that Iranian study. I'm not particularly surprised by this either but it's an interesting exception to the "Cluster B rule". Imo antisocial PD and histrionic PD make a lot more sense as NPD comorbidities in the trans community, especially the intolerant and demanding faction of it that has risen to prominence.

-the especially high levels of NPD in those who undergo "gender-affirming treatment". This makes so much sense to me too. My guess is that this subgroup is made up of exhibitionist narcissists in particular, who are especially image-conscious.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Imo antisocial PD and histrionic PD make a lot more sense as NPD comorbidities

For the record... I think histrionic PD might be on the way out, there's some roots in that diagnosis coming from sexism (e.g. women being accused of being hypersexual in a harmful way, but not men when men do the same behavior; most Histrionic PD diagnosis go to women). But I'd be curious to see how various symptom cluster break down in the transgender population. There are probably more recent studies since I made that post.

My guess is that this subgroup is made up of exhibitionist narcissists in particular, who are especially image-conscious.

I wonder about that as well, or, if they're not outright exhibitionists, that they at least place a lot of value on external image.

No prob, thanks for reading! :) Interesting stuff. Interesting to dissect the train wreck in slow motion, that is, lol.

[–]Retardation_station 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, that really makes perfect sense to me. I never really understood the "validation" thing, so I guess I didn't take that into consideration.

[–]howdidthishappen 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What part of lesbianism is so appealing if it’s not the woman?

The fantasy of lesbianism they constructed after years of copious amount of porn, plus a weird romanticization of relationships between women, and that we’re categorically not interested in them.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

What isn't a valid reason to transition nowadays for these people?

[–]julesburm1891 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I watched Joe Rohan’s interview with Debra Soh several months ago. She flat out said she thought autogynophilia was a valid reason for transition as long as we acknowledge it’s existence. So, I don’t really think there are any limits for these guys even among “critics.”

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

WTF?

Acknowledging AGP exist is nice and all but it doesn't make them any less of a risk to women and lesbians.

Hell, it makes it even worse.

[–]DropItLikeItsHot 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, if we REALLY wanted to acknowledge autogynephilia, then we'd acknowledge that women have a very real reason not to want autogynephiles in their spaces. Women do not exist to be fetish fuel for the sake of validating mentally ill men.

Instead, the trans lobby insists that AGP isn't a thing, and that women have no legitimate reason to be offended by men in their spaces. It's gaslighting.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She flat out said she thought autogynophilia was a valid reason for transition as long as we acknowledge it’s existence.

Seriously...? I mean, that's some improvement, but still.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is a pointless reason.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They want to date the lesbians they've seen in porn. That fetish doesn't carry over well into reality.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Why is it more people don’t take notice of this first declaration, which is made by so very many of them

[–]clitoriana 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

translation: "My gender identity is one big rape fantasy and I'm the rapist."

[–]shveya 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But you can't date lesbians because any woman who'd be interested in you is not a lesbian by default.

[–]DiscoStegosaurus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Imagine only wanting to date people who are sexually repulsed by you, and then threatening those poor people in an attempt to force them to do so. These people are disgusting. I’m not playing their fetish games with them. They’re disgusting homophobes and society is too stupid to see the harm that they are causing by playing along with them. I hate it.

[–]filbs111 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's as valid as any other, but one imagines, the joke might be on them. I hear that popular depictions of lesbians to found on the internet are flattering but inaccurate.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Only if you mean carbon dating.