all 40 comments

[–]ks00 36 insightful - 3 fun36 insightful - 2 fun37 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

So you don't identify as a man, and then are surprised by your treatment in a space for men? The chutzpah is unreal, the most entitled people on earth.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They want to have their cake and eat it too. These people are spoilt brats.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 35 insightful - 5 fun35 insightful - 4 fun36 insightful - 5 fun -  (21 children)

NB: For the purposes of this comment, I’m addressing the author of this page, Stephen Donnan-Dalzell, and not OP. This comment had to be split in two, so enjoy.

OPINION: Being A Non-Binary Bear In A Toxic Masculine Space

Correction: being an attention whore in a space that was intended for grown men, when you try to pretend that you’re not a man.

We talk a lot about the issue of toxic masculinity in the bear community,

We talk too much about toxic masculinity. There is toxicity in the gay male community, but it’s people like you, Stephen, who are the worst offenders of it.

about how the expectations of that word — “bear” — can both liberate us, and expose the tender scars of our own self image.

You don’t have to call yourself a bear. Even if you are masculine, which you’re not.

We associate it with hairy bellied, muscled bodies moving toplessly on the dancefloor as RuPaul deafens us.

Wait, do bears listen to RuPaul? I guess I’m one of the few gay men who don’t like him. But no Stephen, you associate bears with these stereotypes, not us.

We expect male, we expect confidence, we expect masculinity.

That’s the point of being a bear.

But what about those of us who don’t exhibit many, or any, of those attributes?

Then you’re not a bear. Again, you don’t have to be a bear to be gay.

What if masculine isn’t who we are, and what if our gender markers set us apart from “men only” spaces like bear nights and “MASC4MASC” pressures?

Then have your own spaces, Stephen. Nobody’s stopping you.

We’ve all been there — standing in the bar on bear night whenever a femme twink walks in.

Yeah, that twink is a guest in spaces meant for bears. He’s welcome as long as he’s respectful. Which you aren't.

You’ve seen the looks from the usual patrons, in their baseball caps and Captain America t-shirts, chugging their manly beers. No cocktails or wines to be seen.

Stereotyping, much, Stephen? Why do you associate masculinity with beer, superheroes and a hat? Even effeminate men can be interested in those things.

You’ve seen the rolled eyes, the unimpressed looks on the faces of the bearded dad bods as though something alien and intrusive has invaded their space.

I haven’t seen those things, but so what if they happen? Freedom of association. Bears have a right to have spaces exclusively for themselves, just like twinks and other kinds of gays have a right to have spaces exclusively for them.

The same looks that they themselves get whenever they may walk into a sports bar or ‘straight’ club — that they don’t belong there and must be dealt with.

By "they", do you mean bears? Because I’m pretty sure we don’t get these looks at sports bars or "straight" bars. If you were referring to twinks, I’m pretty sure that twinks are welcome in those places. And if they do get looks, it would probably because it’s unusual for a twink to be in those places, but most people wouldn’t mind as long as the twinks don’t try to change the culture of these places.

The air of negativity, of hostility and the contempt between the otherwise joyous revellers as they are faced with the reminder of what the rest of the world might think of them, too.

Are we supposed to let twinks and NBs boss us around just because homophobes were mean to us? No, we have enough problems with homophobes besides non-binary gender weirdos making our lives miserable. Leave us alone.

That pervading masculinity washes through the air like a stink bomb, turning noses up and making lips curl. I know you’ve seen it, I know you’ve done it — I have, too.

I get it, you have a problem with masculinity. But masculinity is what a lot of gay men are attracted to, and so many gay men are naturally masculine. If you don’t like it, then leave us alone. And the fact that you have compared gay male masculinity to a stinkbomb illustrates your homophobia and entitlement.

I’m a non-binary person and I use they/them pronouns. But I very much consider myself to be a bear, in the most traditional and basic sense. I am attracted to heavier men, or those who present as male.

If you identify as non-binary, then maybe those spaces that you bitch and moan about aren’t for you. If you want us to respect your delusions and treat you as if you’re not a man, then you should respect our wishes to have our gay male spaces be for gay men and leave us alone.

My husband is the typical representation of a bear — hairy chested, full bellied, bearded, tall, etc. He has no problem fitting into the spaces that our community occupies and carves out for itself.

Oh look! A bear who is willing to put up with your bullshit.

But I have seen first hand how “men only” nights are exclusionary for all the wrong reasons, and the damage that it can do.

No, there is no damage being done, except by people like you, Stephen. "Men only" nights are exclusionary by design. If you are a biological male, you can take part in those events if you’d just stop pretending to be something that you’re not. Regardless, gay men have a right to have spaces for ourselves, and if this bothers you, just piss off.

I present as quite femme, despite having a beard, and a belly, and hair.

So, you’re not a bear.

I love wearing earrings, I love wearing flamboyant clothes with radical queer slogans on them. I love wearing highlighter on my cheeks and letting my wrist hang limp as I swish about the dancefloor like a fairy.

Maybe this is why you get these looks when you’re at bears' spaces. Maybe bears are put off by your behaviour and your mannerisms. Society always preaches about "being yourself", but when you are in a space that is not meant for you, you’re a guest, and you should be respectful of the people this space was made for.

I’ve been told before that I’m too femme,

Well, you are femme. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but different gay men have different tastes, and different spaces have different rules.

that I’m not a “man’s man”. Well fellas, that’s because I don’t consider myself a man at all.

In that case, you don’t belong in gay men’s spaces. Because gay men’s spaces are meant for men.

My gender identity is a rejection of the toxicity of masculinity within the queer community, and a useful marker for me to identify with.

If you don’t like it, then stop trying to participate in it. But no. You’d rather storm into spaces that were not meant for you and demand that those spaces cater to you, because you are an entitled, narcissistic attention whore who only cares about himself.

My gender exists in the space between male and female, both outside of those two definitions and yet entwined within both somehow.

No, you’re male.

When I tell guys that I’m non-binary they can look at me like a dog that’s heard an unfamiliar noise. “But you dress like a man / But you have a beard”, etc. Non-binary people don’t owe you androgyny, and there is no definition of what a non-binary bear should look like, yet here I am.

Of course they’re gonna look at you like a dog, because you’re acting like a mental patient.

Yet, I still find it difficult to have those conversations within predominantly male spaces, because within that masculinity there is the notion that something slightly different could upset the balance and allow an undercurrent of queerness into those spaces.

The reason for that is because we don’t want people like you taking over our spaces and making us feel unwelcome in our own spaces.

Queerness is nothing to be confronted or avoided within the bear community.

If by "queer" you mean behaving like you, then yeah, it’s natural that bears want to avoid it or confront it.

Recognising my gender identity has helped me to be more comfortable and accepting of the body I inhabit and I have learned to love it.

Cool. Now leave us alone.

The toxic masculinity that was instilled in me was a corrosive element that only furthered my own self-doubt and the hatred of my own skin and bones.

If you don’t want to be masculine, then that’s fine. But don’t shame other men for being masculine. And especially don’t shame other gay men for being masculine. But you do that anyway, because you’re an asshole.

Allowing myself to live unapologetically as a non-binary person, within the bear community, has helped me to understand that we as a community are far too constrained by society’s definition of what is an acceptable body type.

And us bears will live unapologetically as masculine gay men. But you don’t like it, because you want us all to be as miserable as you.

Us bears are guilty of that shame, too.

First of all, Stephen, you’re not a bear. Second of all, bears are not guilty of anything. The only thing we’ve done wrong was tolerating people like you.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

We don’t make enough time for trans and non-binary members within our spaces and venues.

Why should we make time for these people? Those spaces are meant for us. If we give them permission to be in our spaces - which we’re not obligated to do, by the way - we expect them to behave themselves because they’re guests in our spaces.

I have had to argue on behalf of trans men who have been knocked back at the door of ‘Bear night’ because they didn’t fit the profile.

Well then you are free walk out with these delusional heterosexual/bisexual women so. Please do, because you are destroying our spaces from the inside. Women don’t belong in bears' spaces unless we invite them, and even then, they have to behave themselves. If you want to simp for them, do it somewhere else.

There’s no Goldilocks template for bears, none of us are ‘just right’ — all of us are. I have tried my best to break down the self-defeatist attitude of my friends who don’t think they are hairy enough, muscled enough, etc. to be considered attractive by the standards set by Instabears wearing Nasty Pig jocks or rocking a new OnlyFans account. There is nothing wrong with those things, but we cannot let our community become subsumed into the idea that there is an acceptable level of masculinity, and an unacceptable level of femininity that must be either nurtured or rejected.

There is nothing wrong with bears having standards, and if you can’t adhere to these standards, then be something else and go somewhere else.

That’s what society has done to us, and we simply need to do better than to inherit the closeted, internalised homophobia that has been given to us.

Are you seriously comparing masculine gay men being themselves and wanting spaces for themselves to homophobia? Are you mentally ill? Don’t answer that, I know. I’m not masculine because of homophobia, I’m masculine because that’s just how I am. I’m also not attracted to masculine men because of homophobia, I’m attracted to masculine men because that’s how my sexuality is.

It’s beyond time that we, as a community, challenged the notion of how important that masculinity is to us, and if being wedded to the outmoded notion of a gender binary is really worth it.

Masculinity is important to me, it’s important to a lot of gay men. And if you cannot see that, then that’s your affair.

People like you, Stephen, are the reason why the gay community is dead. People like you being entitled, delusional and narcissistic, coming into our spaces and demanding we cater to your every demand just because we’re all same sex attracted. This has to end. Gay men with their heads screwed on need to stand up, speak up and push back against assholes like you. And if that bothers you, find some gay men who are exactly like you, because sadly, there are plenty of gay men like you. And then you wonder why there’s an increase in homophobia? Because yes, your behaviour is not only hurting other gay men, but society at large. Not to mention the amount of closeted gay male teenagers who struggle because they look at people like you and end up believing that it’s you numpties who are representative of the gay community, because they don’t want anything to do with people like you.

End rant.

That was long, but everything I’ve said needed to be said. Comments have been edited for grammar and spelling. Anyway, the comments on this page are not having it, so I’m glad some gay men are standing up for our community.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I guess I’m one of the few gay men who don’t like him.

You're not the only one.

His association with a certain person kind of muddled my feelings in relation to him.

MASC4MASC

People have the right to decide who they want to hang around and have sex with.

This shouldn't be a hard thing to understand.

By "they", do you mean bears? Because I’m pretty sure we don’t get these looks at sports bars or "straight" bars.

Also, I don't believe most bears are dumb/narcissistic enough to barge in a space which doesn't welcome their presence.

Are we supposed to let twinks and NBs boss us around just because homophobes were mean to us? No, we have enough problems with homophobes besides non-binary gender weirdos making our lives miserable. Leave us alone.

Also, it's funny how this guy is speaking for twinks even though he isn't one.

Oh, it's almost like most of them don't care about this shite and already have their own spaces to hang around with each other!

I get it, you have a problem with masculinity. But masculinity is what a lot of gay men are attracted to, and so many gay men are naturally masculine. If you don’t like it, then leave us alone. And the fact that you have compared gay male masculinity to a stinkbomb illustrates your homophobia and entitlement.

Exactly, gay men have the right to be masculine... and to be feminine as well.

It's almost like this guy wants to be treated with kiddy gloves his entire life.

If you don’t like it, then stop trying to participate in it. But no. You’d rather storm into spaces that were not meant for you and demand that those spaces cater to you, because you are an entitled, narcissistic attention whore who only cares about himself.

Cluster B disorders are a hell of a drug.

It's no wonder that even a majority of psychologists don't want to deal with this shit.

Are you seriously comparing masculine gay men being themselves and wanting spaces for themselves to homophobia? Are you mentally ill? Don’t answer that, I know. I’m not masculine because of homophobia, I’m masculine because that’s just how I am. I’m also not attracted to masculine men because of homophobia, I’m attracted to masculine men because that’s how my sexuality is.

And there we have it.

These people scream about 'prejudice' and 'bigotry' 24/7 only to hide their own.

Nice!

That was long, but everything I’ve said needed to be said. Comments have been edited for grammar and spelling. Anyway, the comments on this page are not having it, so I’m glad some gay men are standing up for our community.

Yessssss.

I'm very happy to hear this.

We won't bend to the demands of the Cluster Brigade.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You’re right about the twinks. Most twinks don’t give a shit, and whenever I’m in a space meant for twinks, I behave like a guest, because I am a guest. Some twinks like masculine men, and most of the rest are not interested but don’t mind masculine men. Most twinks would be put off by people like Stephen Donnan-Dalzell.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

They would probably mock him for being a narcissistic attention whore, which is fine by me, lmao!

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Graceful twinks would refuse to interact with him, and sassy twinks would laugh at him and belittle his appearance.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Just curious, what are the certain type of people you're talking about when you're saying your feelings on RuPaul are muddied? (Edit: I see you actually said a certain person so I guess you're referring to just one person although there have apparently been multiple trans contestants.)

I've been a fan of Drag Race for a long time, but haven't caught up because I don't have cable and only just now found a streaming service that goes past Season 8 (which was the last one I'd seen). I understand that one of the most recent seasons had a woman calling herself a man performing as a woman (and my understanding is also that said contestant made it to the finale or close), and that kind of muddied my feelings on Ru, as well.

But I also know that RuPaul is pretty savvy and I wonder how much he actually buys into the gender nonsense vs. how much he realizes that if he's going to run a drag competition in 2021 that he needs to cater to the genderspecials lest he be cancelled.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don’t hate RuPaul, but I don’t like him either. I just don’t care for drag queens.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I like Drag Race specifically but I don't really care for drag queens in real life; I have been friends with a few and they tend to be not really my cup of tea as far as people to hang out with.

I quite enjoy RuPaul as an actor, though, and it does make me a little sad to see him buying into the TQ stuff if that's what he's actually doing and not just trying to keep his show afloat.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I quite enjoy RuPaul as an actor, though, and it does make me a little sad to see him buying into the TQ stuff if that's what he's actually doing and not just trying to keep his show afloat.

My impression of Ru in the last few years has been that he doesn't believe but has decided to play along to protect his media empire.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hopefully RuPaul stands up for himself if he knows what’s going on.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Just curious, what are the certain type of people you're talking about when you're saying your feelings on RuPaul are muddied? (Edit: I see you actually said a certain person so I guess you're referring to just one person although there have apparently been multiple trans contestants.)

So you don't know? Oh my...

The person I'm refering to is none other than Michael Alig, a literal sex pest and murderer.

He was the creator of the whole 'Club Kids' fad, or as I like to call it, the place where bright futures went to die.

He also got involved with Desmond (yes, the 'drag kid') of all people after getting out of jail for killing his drug dealer.

He was a very close friend of RuPaul, who never said a thing condemning his actions, including the murder.

[–]Rag3 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

ALIG WAS FRIENDS WITH RUPAUL? Welp. That solidifies my dislike.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's a documentary, I believe it's name is 'Party Monster', which explains the link between RuPaul and Alig in a quite detailed way.

It's on YouTube if you want to give it a watch.

[–]Rag3 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yes! I’ve been meaning to watch that for a long time now. I’m only familiar with Alig from true crime docs in early aughts + the documentary he released when he got out of jail.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

He’s friends with RuPaul. Okay it’s settled, I hate RuPaul.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

RuPaul was a 'Club Kid' himself, so yeah...

[–]our_team_is_winning 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Outstanding breakdown you did. I couldn't read crap like that without some brilliant feedback like yours along the way.

I was shocked he has a husband. Unbelievable what some people will put up with.

Men (and women) like this guy are troublemakers and proud of it. They've invented their own cult world of genderspecial bullshit and won't stop trying to explain to normal people how it clashes with reality, so reality must change.

"Leave us ALONE, creep" -- that's the reaction I have to all these people.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I don’t know anything about his husband, but it wouldn’t surprise me if his husband was getting it from somewhere else. Maybe the husband only married him because Stephen has a rich family, or maybe the husband has low self esteem. Or maybe the husband married Stephen before Stephen became non-binary and insufferable, and is now in the process of filing for divorce.

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

For reference, this is his husband. I think it's safe to say neither can do better and is just looking to not die alone.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No wonder. His husband looks like a basement dweller. They deserve each other.

[–]jim_steak 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Have any of these non-binary people considered that the reason people don't like them is because it's tiring to constantly play linguistic games with a narcissist who demands to set the rules for how you think and talk about them? The first thing out of these peoples' mouths is always their gender identity and the rules for interacting with them - I don't buy for a second that this guy is upset when people "misgender" him as male, it gives him a chance to correct them and talk about how special he is.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So, he's non-binary, but still wants to be in spaces for gay men? Sounds a lot like the non-binary women who still desperately want to be lesbians.

He made his choice, he should live with it.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He wants to have it both ways. He wants to be special and he wants everybody to worship him for it.

It's bad enough for us, but it sucks that lesbian spaces have it worse. But you do have a gender critical movement, so keep up the good fight.

[–]HelloMomo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When I was like 14 and still entertaining this kind of stuff, this was one of the first cracks in it for me. It's bad worldbuilding.

Worldbuilding is supposed to go something like: "In my word, X thing is different," and then from there you need to follow the domino effect and explore all the logical consequences of that one change. But the genderists don't. And as a kid who loved fantasy books, that just seemed like really cheep and shoddy worldbuilding.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What an asshole.

[–]JulienMayfair 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

A person in search of a problem.

[–]DropItLikeItsHot 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What if masculine isn’t who we are, and what if our gender markers set us apart from “men only” spaces

What if they're not into effeminate men? What if they're gay males who want other gay males without the gender baggage you're bringing?

Allowing myself to live unapologetically as a non-binary person, within the bear community, has helped me to understand that we as a community are far too constrained by society’s definition of what is an acceptable body type.

It's not about body type; it's about your self-declared identity signalling a big red flag to them and causing them to stay the fuck away. You are unwittingly demonstrating a dating equivalent of aposematism and then complaining about the results you get.

I present as quite femme, despite having a beard, and a belly, and hair. I love wearing earrings, I love wearing flamboyant clothes with radical queer slogans on them. I love wearing highlighter on my cheeks and letting my wrist hang limp as I swish about the dancefloor like a fairy.

I’ve been told before that I’m too femme, that I’m not a “man’s man”. Well fellas, that’s because I don’t consider myself a man at all.

Gay men want gay men. You already claim you're not a man so you're being homophobic, and you're admitting you're extremely effeminate which quite frankly isn't going to be to everyone's taste and that's not something that they need to apologize for.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Upvote for aposematism. That is really what we're seeing in most TQ+ cases.

[–]DropItLikeItsHot 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They drape themselves in red flags then complain when people look at them and see nothing but red flags. It's the ultimate victim complex.

[–]schomee 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

He talks about "toxic masculinity", how about the "toxic femininity" of narcissism? Jesus.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Or toxic androgyny, in his case. Something that never gets talked about, but is extremely real.

[–]schomee 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He's just a regular guy. The problem is his writing. It's degenerate, sinister and evil. If you had to genuinely rely on his writing and had no experience with "the bear community", which is barely a thing, he paints a picture of extremely powerful titans loaded with masculinity, dominance and power and i honestly just had to laugh. He knows he's lying and that's what makes this evil. Theyre some of the nicest, most balanced, funny and "feminine" fun non threatening guys you'll ever meet.

Their entire culture started as a proto version of the fat acceptance movement. They rebelled against how homophobia was leveraged by certain gays to make "twinks" the face of gays. That shaving every single part of your body and aspiring to be some 18 year old boy was wrong. That's literally it. This guy must have some form of autism and deeply doesnt understand this or he's actively lying because he wants to push his disgusting "non binary, you're all bigots and i'll go out of my way to slander you" bullshit on them.

I read the article. There's something deeply wrong with him. And i suspect his understanding of these people is through the internet, which again, just step outside and interact with them. Gays are the most "non binary" people on the planet. I think we need to start shoving these people's sense of entitlement and bullying back up their ass. He's doing this as a power move. It makes no sense otherwise. He has no loyalty to gays or lesbians or anything and he's bored and this is his way of having fun: trying to bully. He needs to be bullied back.

It's a bunch of guys who arent obsessed with dieting and are probably drinking fun fruity drinks, laughing and giggling and when you read his article, you'd think he was in some octagon with the worlds most powerful fighters who dont dare show any emotions lest it be viewed as weakness and an invitation to attack....as if he just escaped some sort of hollywood movie. What a jackass.

[–]julesburm1891 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

He doesn’t identify as a man but wants to be in men’s spaces. By his side’s own logic, he’s an invasive asshole.

I’m just going to take a stab in the dark and guess that the gay men in these spaces don’t like having him hang around solely because he’s a whiney and self-absorbed prick.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

My husband and I were friends with some people that were polyamorous (which kind of came up out of nowhere if I think about it, like we were all friends for years before suddenly everyone in the friend group was poly and in a relationship with each other), and their friends that started hanging around after they went poly were so insufferable that my husband and I had to just dip out of that social circle.

I couldn't give two shits who they were sleeping with or what they were doing to their pre-existing relationships; like, you wanna be poly, fine, do what you want. But they were the same sorts of people and I'd wager anything that half of them or more identify as nonbinary now. This one girl spent two hours talking to us about how wild her life was and how she used to live at the circus and slept on a bed of nails, and how amazing and wonderful she is, blah blah blah, like anyone really cares. It's so annoying!!

Do they really have so little self-awareness that they see people in their lives dropping them and they think, "It's everyone else who's the asshole, not me."?

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s most likely why they don’t like him. Nobody wants to be around whiny people.

[–]fuck_reddit 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sir, this is a publication, not a creative writing class.

[–]pacsatonifil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LMFAO! This guy is fine looking it is just his crazy nonsense that drives any person looking for someone stable away. I would be like hell no.