DiscussionSome Discussion Questions for You Guys

submitted by Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]MyLongestJourney 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Yeah,those papers do not support that trans is just extreme homosexuality. They just attempt to justify a correlation between sexual orientation and abnormal prenatal hormone levels.

I will also have to remind you that a percentage of trans males and females is completely heterosexual.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

You're not going to be able to understand trans if you lump all the etiologies together into "just trans" and try and treat them as a homogeneous group, but the activists will love you if you do.

[–]MyLongestJourney 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You're not going to be able to understand trans if you lump all the etiologies together into "just trans"

I am not doing that,I have no idea how you got that idea. My personal hypothesis is that genuine GID arises mainly as a conflict between one's true personality and society's gender expectations. And then you have the ones who claim to be trans but are not GID sufferers. Those are the most likely to be the fetishists.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

So you want a paper that links hormonal organization of the brain, during neonatal development, and GID?

From that paper's conclusion:

Our data show that current sexual orientation is not only predicted from the degree of prenatal androgen exposure as indicated by the CAH-severity classification, but in addi- tion also from the degree of masculinization of gender- related behavior during childhood.

They go on,

The latter variable could reflect variable brain responsiveness to prenatal androgens as well as postnatal psychosocial influences, provided retrospective reporting bias can be ruled out. This study does not provide an opportunity to decide between these options.

So there's a putative mechanism for you. In terms of childhood-onset GD, homosexuality is heavily implicated.

It all makes logical sense, but if you want a paper sampling circulating hormones during all stages of neonatal development longitudinally put up against GD, you're probably not going to get that.

This study did looked at cross-gender association:

At the end of the imagery section, the participant was asked about the frequency with which they saw themselves as ‘‘a person of the opposite sex’’ in their erotic imagery, sepa- rately for the past 12 months and lifetime (since puberty, excluding the past 12 months). As Table 7 shows, all groups except SV included some women with such experience.

But more specifically, they were looking at overall gender-nonconformity, which is implicated in childhood GD. Right?

And there's citations to get you started, like

Meyer-Bahlburg, H. F. L., Gruen, R. S., New, M. I., Bell, J. J., Morishima, A., Shimshi, M., et al. (1996). Gender change from female to male in classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Hormones and Behavior, 30, 319–332.

[–]MyLongestJourney 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the link.

Beyer-Bahlburg, H. F. L., Gruen, R. S., New, M. I., Bell, J. J., Morishima, A., Shimshi, M., et al. (1996). Gender change from female to male in classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Hormones and Behavior, 30, 319–332.

Their sample size was a mere 12 women with CAH.Hardly a reliable sample size.

Contrast that with the many butch women who are not CAH sufferers.True many of them are lesbians but there are also heterosexual butch women.

Edit. From another study :

This article reviews the literature on studies and case reports on gender identity and gender identity problems, gender dysphoria, and gender change in chromosomal females with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, raised male or female. The large majority (94.8%) of the patients raised female (N= 250) later developed a gender identity as girls and women and did not feel gender dysphoric. But 13 (5.2%) patients had serious problems with their gender identity.

Edit : From another study :

Six 46,XX patients with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) presented with genital ambiguity, five so severe that initial gender assignment was male. Once diagnosis was realized, parents were involved in evaluation and chose sex re-assignment as female. To date, these girls and their parents all indicate satisfaction with their decision for a female sex of rearing. The girls have a female gender identity with behavior characteristics known for females with CAH. Thus, while outcome is satisfactory, it is realized that for most, expression of sexual orientation and adult life adjustments have not yet occurred.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaclownfish is a clown or a fish? || Febfem 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Women with CAH can die without correct treatment (treatment for males is not sufficient in hard cases), so that "re-assigment as female" was life-saving and not just "to feel better in new gender identity".

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

There are homosexual transexuals and transvestite. The problem is gender identity has put naturally feminine gay men and masculine lesbians who were the transexuals of the past and the reason the T was together with LGB with transvestites AGP, meaning heterosexual men who get turned dressing up and playing a female part. The first type is natural , the second time is a fetish.

In the past it was a automatic that if someone was trans it was homosexual. The transvestites AGP lived their fetish in private, since living openly was taboo.

[–]MyLongestJourney 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are homosexual transexuals and transvestite. The problem is gender identity has put naturally feminine gay men and masculine lesbians who were the transexuals of the past and the reason the T was together with LGB with transvestites AGP, meaning heterosexual men who get turned dressing up and playing a female part. The first type is natural , the second time is a fetish.

Actually Ray Blachard identified two types of men with GID in his research. The first were homosexual effeminate men,the second completely heterosexual men with AGP.AGP does not exlude GID.