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[–]our_team_is_winning 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (35 children)

This is so "out there" to me that a lesbian could see herself as a "gay trans man" -- so instead of thinking "I'm attracted to women, so I must be a man" -- she thinks "I'm actually a man, and I'm attracted to other men, so I'm gay" -- if you're a "lesbian" attracted to men, you're a straight woman. If you're specifically attracted to gay men and imagine yourself to magically be a gay man, it's a fetish.

I've watched her before, and my takeaway was that anime / yaoi is a helluva drug. Is this Japan's "revenge served cold" after Hiroshima and Nagasaki? But she's Canadian....

[–]usehername[S] 7 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

anime / yaoi is a helluva drug. Is this Japan's "revenge served cold" after Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I want you to know I literally cried laughing at this line.

[–]DiveBarDiva 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

I think since she was on such heavy antidepressants she wasn’t attracted to anyone while this was going on. I don’t think she was a fetishist. She was just trying to figure out the type of relationship she would want to be on based on power dynamics. Her dysphoria made her think she was male, her internalized misogyny and lesbophobia made female relationships seem off putting. It doesn’t help that lesbian porn is the only time a young person who doesn’t know any lesbians in real life would see anything to do with lesbians. Not experiencing any type of attraction would make it hard to figure out your sexuality. I agree I the anime is contributing to this stuff happening. I wonder how though.

[–]our_team_is_winning 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (31 children)

I don’t think she was a fetishist.

Agreed in her case. I like her a lot. I've watched some of her videos and an interview. But teenage girls in general seem to be going the fetish route over gay men, mostly from anime sources (not even real men, just cartoons of pretty boys).

I think it's a non-threatening form of sexual dabbling. They have no clue about actual gay men. It's more like comic book sexuality. Is there a word for yaoi being a girl's sexual orientation? (Afraid to go looking. Still reeling from diaper fur.)

[–]usehername[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

I think it's a non-threatening form of sexual dabbling. They have no clue about actual gay men. It's more like comic book sexuality.

That sounds about right.

Is there a word for yaoi being a girl's sexual orientation?

I looked for you and couldn't find one, but I'd just call her a mentally ill fetishist who needs therapy.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

In case you're curious, I've heard of people talk about autoandrophilia (AAP) as being analogous to AGP. I want to say there was like one preliminary study done on it... But many of the researchers who study paraphilias seem to assume that women are too "pure" or some shit to have paraphilias, so there's less investigation into paraphilias that are common among women as opposed to men.

[–]usehername[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I am familiar with AAP; that was the fetish I was referring to when I called the hypothetical girl a fetishist, but I appreciate you spreading awareness. I interpreted the question as looking for a tumblr-esque term like "yaoisexual" that people would willingly identify as, but you're right, that's just AAP lol.

many of the researchers who study paraphilias seem to assume that women are too "pure" or some shit to have paraphilias

This is such a dumb idea. Men do tend to have more paraphilias and their paraphilias tend to be more severe, but the idea that women don't even have them is ridiculous. I have met several women with paraphilias, even a couple who would qualify as having a paraphilic disorder.

so there's less investigation into paraphilias that are common among women as opposed to men.

Almost all research on masochism is done on males--aside from those who claim it's natural in women--despite the fact that masochism is way more common in women.

It sucks. This research is essential, especially in the context of trans issues.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Oh gotcha, yeah no problem, I think it's messed up that so many people are trying to hide the phenomena of AAP/AGP when those terms really do describe some people's lived experience. Not surprised you already knew about it, you seem well-read on a lot of these topics.

This is such a dumb idea. Men do tend to have more paraphilias and their paraphilias tend to be more severe, but the idea that women don't even have them is ridiculous. I have met several women with paraphilias, even a couple who would qualify as having a paraphilic disorder.

Agreed. I do think this is one casualty of having men (male people...) so heavily dominant in many academic fields. There are whole areas of human study where research on males is over-emphasized and there's hardly any research on women at all.

Almost all research on masochism is done on males--aside from those who claim it's natural in women--despite the fact that masochism is way more common in women.

What! That's ridiculous, lol. I actually laughed out loud in disbelief...

It may strike most people as non-intuitive but it does seem that studying paraphilias would be super helpful for the LGB community... since the paraphilia-dominated TQ+ movement is currently silencing and shaming LGB people.

[–]usehername[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's messed up that so many people are trying to hide the phenomena of AAP/AGP when those terms really do describe some people's lived experience.

Yeah, on this forum, I just assumed everyone knows, but I think that you're right that that isn't the case. Not everyone has as much time as me to read cringey shit.

men (male people...)

I laughed at the specification. Fucked that it's necessary. I guess we have to keep our lurkers in mind.

There are whole areas of human study where research on males is over-emphasized and there's hardly any research on women at all.

It's every field other than obstetrics and gynecology, really. Every aspect of life. Even car seats are designed for men and most companies don't use crash-test dummies based on females, which is why we're more likely to die in a car crash.

It may strike most people as non-intuitive but it does seem that studying paraphilias would be super helpful for the LGB community... since the paraphilia-dominated TQ+ movement is currently silencing and shaming LGB people.

Then we can finally kick them out of Pride lmao. However, the pro-kink crowd is now equating any questioning of paraphilia with homophobia since wE'rE aLl QuEErz, and any questioning of AGP (and by association, AAP) with "transphobia" so a researcher needs to overcome that hurdle in our woke climate. Which isn't to say there isn't any hope, as it seems like things may be swinging in our direction, or at least their momentum is decreasing, but just to explain why the research isn't being done, other than the obvious: not caring about mobile breeding sows.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Almost all research on masochism is done on males--aside from those who claim it's natural in women--despite the fact that masochism is way more common in women.

What! That's ridiculous, lol. I actually laughed out loud in disbelief...

That does appear to be the case. Paraphilia in women gravitates to masochism. Masochism, in this sense, revolves around interpersonal power, and there are a variety of concepts that exemplify that. It's usually not beatings.

The really interesting thing about paraphilia in women is that it does not seem very prevalent in heterosexual-identified women. Bisexual and homosexual identified women seem to lead the pack. There are a few hypothesis on this.

It may strike most people as non-intuitive but it does seem that studying paraphilias would be super helpful for the LGB community... since the paraphilia-dominated TQ+ movement is currently silencing and shaming LGB people.

I could not agree more.

[–]usehername[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The really interesting thing about paraphilia in women is that it does not seem very prevalent in heterosexual-identified women. Bisexual and homosexual identified women seem to lead the pack. There are a few hypothesis on this.

Masochism in het women is considered normal, but I'd say the majority of young women enjoy some sort of masochistic element, and the rest are pressured into it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Well when I say masochism, I'm not talking "rough sex," or experimentation with common BDSM themes, which half of the USA population has some life-time prevalence of. I'd also omit things that are a trend, like "choking," which is a really stupid thing to be doing because of the risks. It's a grey area between rough sex and masochism, for sure though. E.g. I'm thinking along the lines of being turned on when someone orders you to change your wind shield wipers, or else. Then failing to do so, being punished for it, and finding the entire scenario to be highly erotic. Real anecdote. Bisexual woman though. It's this nature of masochism that is way more common in bisexual and homosexual women, and men, then it is in heterosexual women.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Is there a word for yaoi being a girl's sexual orientation?

Autoandrophilia? Would be abbreviated as AAP. Some human sex researchers believe that "women are too pure to have fetishes like men do," though, so they haven't studied it.

(Afraid to go looking. Still reeling from diaper fur.)

Completely understandable.

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Some human sex researchers believe that "women are too pure to have fetishes

So it's not actually a fact, it's just a suspicion with no research to back it up.

Women definitely have some kind of "fetish" - if you define it as sexual attraction to something other than our sex organs or sexed body parts [I mean, broad shoulders and a muscular chest isn't a sex organ, but it's definitely a very male thing, so I wouldn't call attraction to that a "fetish" if you're into men.]

I was thinking specifically of the vampire craze. At one point there was just one TV series after another with "sexy vampires" -- and of course the Twilight books and all the others in that genre (nothing new actually) -- and so many women glued to them. Getting turned on by that seems like a fetish to me.

[–]usehername[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I know you weren't talking to me, but I wanted to say that when females read yaoi, they usually imagine themselves as one of the males, which is the AAP aspect; the attraction to the males isn't generally the fetishistic part.

So it's not actually a fact, it's just a suspicion with no research to back it up.

This is anecdotal, but I have met AAPs before, and you can find people online saying they are AAP and describing all the signs (as analogous to AGP). However the idea that "women are too pure to have paraphilias" is contrary to the evidence, and to me, it only seems logical that there would be a reverse of AGP.

I was thinking specifically of the vampire craze. At one point there was just one TV series after another with "sexy vampires" -- and of course the Twilight books and all the others in that genre (nothing new actually) -- and so many women glued to them. Getting turned on by that seems like a fetish to me.

Yes, definitely. I think that would also fall under the umbrella of either sadism or masochism, but more specific. Some people really do identify as "vampiresexual/vampsexual".

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

yaoi

I've been trying to unravel why the medium for this is strictly artistic. Perhaps it's just too niche, but it's been suggested to me that autism plays a role insofar as the anime genre uses exaggerated emotions, which are apparently more readily understood, yaoi or not.

[–]usehername[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Possibly, but there's also the fact that drawn nudity is a lot less jarring than actual nudity. These gals may also watch live gay porn, though, but pedophilia is a common theme in yaoi, which can't be done live without severe consequences.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

There are common themes in literature that women tend to find erotic. Beast-taming is probably the short way to put it. 50 shades? Beauty and the beast? This does however strike me as an epiphenomena.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Epiphenomena of what? Masochism?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I don't think so.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Ok, epiphenomena of what?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I don't know. Me and others have seen the pattern but nobody knows what to make of it. It's intuition that tells me it's an epiphenomenon. It's also something I've only really seen in works of fiction, and I haven't exactly collected any real-life anecdotes. There is a dichotomy of what fiction appeals to women, and what they tend to seek from partners.

[–]usehername[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Beauty in the beast is not erotic literature for women, it's propaganda for girls to accept arranged marriages with abusive men.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The theme of beauty and the beast. Not specifically the Disney film.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is this Japan's "revenge served cold" after Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Oh god, lol.