ColonizationJo Bartosch on why intersex people are fed up with their medical conditions being repurposed as a transgender identity

submitted by ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah from lesbianandgaynews.com

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[–]usehername 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Of course it would get on mods' nerves, considering they're involved with LGB Alliance

Huh, didn't know that. What branch, or just the whole organization in general?

he did claim some obscure points without any sources to back him up

This was the source for LGB Alliance Iceland supporting cosmetic SRS for intersex babies (I just linked the whole thread, but the comment is right at the top):

https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/7mot/lgb_alliance_is_getting_out_of_hand_and_is/

[–][deleted]  (10 children)

[deleted]

    [–]usehername 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    I remember Movellon saying something about being involved and meeting them regularly, and I think perhaps one or two other mods mentioned it

    That's interesting. I didn't know we were affiliated lol

    u/SuperGayIsOkay I am also responding to you in this next message:

    The pedo thing seems to be based on the fact that he doesn't believe that GNC children grow up to be gay, and that it's weird to look for "signs" of a child's sexuality or think about what orientation a child will have when it grows up. Agreeing with the idea that being GNC as a child is a sign of being an LG adult (no studies on bis, lol) would require me to agree that female children are biologically wired feminine and male children are biologically wired masculine, and that being homosexual somehow inverts that... biologically. I don't know anyone who wasn't obsessively conditioned into being feminine as a girl or vice versa for boys, so I really don't think that "gender" (masculinity and femininity) is biological in any way, especially not in any way that a child would experience. I do think it's a bit weird to worry about the sexuality of kids and what they're gonna be.

    I understand that LGB adolescents are being transitioned at a high rate and that is definitely cause for concern, but an adolescent that has undergone or is in the process of puberty actually has a sexual orientation, and we can point that out and show that it's a type of conversion therapy. However, taking a little kid like Jazz Jennings who was transed at 3 years old, put on puberty blockers and hormones and then castrated, and then saying "he was a gay little boy who was transed!" is ridiculous because he never had a sexuality and likely never will. Assuming he was going to be gay because he liked playing dress-up and wanted to be like his big sister is just weird. It is weird and creepy to label silly things that children like as indicators of future sexuality. I'm of the opinion that kids shouldn't be exposed to sexuality (all, not just LGB) at all, as they're too young to process it, and they don't need adults projecting sexual overtones on their style of play and/or dress. I also recognize that parents wanting to transition their kids because they believe that GNC behavior is an indicator of being gay and want to "fix it" is a problem, but I can't get on board with the premise that it's possible to tell the future sexuality of a child just from styles of play and dress; it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    [–]SuperGayIsOkay 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

    I can't get on board with the premise that it's possible to tell the future sexuality of a child just from styles of play and dress

    Literally nobody has made that claim here. Try again.

    [–]usehername 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    You're already getting hostile? If you go through u/OPPRESSED_REPTILIAN 's post history you'll find him arguing with users who claim that, but if you can't be bothered I can dig up some links.

    [–]SuperGayIsOkay 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    Making shit up strikes me as far more hostile.

    I also recognize that parents wanting to transition their kids because they believe that GNC behavior is an indicator of being gay and want to "fix it" is a problem

    I mean the answer's right in front of you and you said it yourself. Parents are transing their children based on the perception that GNC behavior is an LGB indicator. It doesn't, of course, matter if they're LGB or not, and GNC behavior is not a guarantee of LGB, but the point is that it's massively problematic that the possibility of them being LGB is stigmatized to the point where transing them is seen as an acceptable means of "curing" that. It doesn't matter if they're actually LGB or not.

    I'll say this again, just to see if it sinks in this time: literally nobody sane is claiming it's possible to tell the future sexuality of a child just from styles of play and dress. You're basically making up a strawman argument here for god knows what reason.

    [–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    It doesn't, of course, matter if they're LGB or not, and GNC behavior is not a guarantee of LGB, but the point is that it's massively problematic that the possibility of them being LGB is stigmatized to the point where transing them is seen as an acceptable means of "curing" that. It doesn't matter if they're actually LGB or not.

    Wow, it's almost as if you copied and pasted that from my response to you.

    People are claiming that; the proof is easily accessible, but if you want to be ignorant I don't fucking care anymore.

    [–]SuperGayIsOkay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    "The proof is easily accessible!" [posts no links]

    Good luck with... whatever issues you're dealing with that are causing your wild misperceptions about all of this.

    [–]usehername 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    the possibility that children who would grow up to be LGB

    In fact, you're making the claim here that it's possible to tell which children will grow up to be LGB, presumably while they are young enough to not have an orientation/haven't experienced puberty.

    [–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I think the most important part is what’s going on in the parents’ head and they’re suspecting their toddlers/children will be gay based on toy and clothing preferences, and many are actively seeking to prevent that through transition. I agree as a general matter with not projecting sexual orientation of any kind on kids, but it can’t be denied that there are certain patterns that are much more common among kids who will grow up to be gay and it’s these patterns that people are picking up on and simultaneously seeing as signs their kid will be gay and a sign their child is supposed to be the opposite sex.

    For Jazz, hasn’t Jazz made it pretty clear he likes boys? Or at least dates them? Or are we going by the fact that his sexuality itself seems to have been neutered?

    [–]usehername 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think the most important part is what’s going on in the parents’ head and they’re suspecting their toddlers/children will be gay based on toy and clothing preferences, and many are actively seeking to prevent that through transition.

    I agree that that's very important, and I did address that.

    it can’t be denied that there are certain patterns that are much more common among kids who will grow up to be gay

    I'm not convinced.

    For Jazz, hasn’t Jazz made it pretty clear he likes boys? Or at least dates them? Or are we going by the fact that his sexuality itself seems to have been neutered?

    He will never experience arousal, so he's just playing at what he thinks a girl should do (date boys).