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[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

I think this would have been more persuasive if it was written by someone with an intersex condition. Otherwise it’s one radfem reporting on the opinions of two people with intersex conditions that the article admits contradicts the position of an association for one of those conditions. See more below on that.

Also, more time should be taken to explain what the range of intersex conditions are. This wasn’t written for an audience that is new to this. It’s such a wide range of circumstances, that it really should be made clear that one cannot necessarily speak to the experience of another.

Three companion pieces that should be written, and again, would be much more persuasive if written by someone with an actual intersex condition are: (1) in depth look at historical organizing/infrastructure with people for different intersex conditions to reveal the point at which “intersex” got hijacked and forced into the rainbow mafia. (2) More in depth overview of the intersex poser hijackings. This is absolutely the case with Reddit. R/intersex is all trans people now. We need to expose how and why that happened. (3) a look at intersex and it’s history and profile within LGBTQ+ plus. How much funding goes to the I? How much programming goes to the I? What is the extent of the programming, funding, and policies that isn’t just primarily about the T. For example it seems the only policy LGBTQ+ orgs want for intersex is to allow “intersex” to be listed as a sex on identification documents. How does that compare to what different intersex/DSD groups have been asking for at different points in time. What is the state of the law/landscape on this? Is it even getting tracked by LGBTQ+ orgs? What are the demographics of who is both intersex and considers themselves a part of LGBTQ? Is there any such intersex person who is not already covered by another letter? Are the orgs even tracking this?

I don’t want to be like the TRAs. I don’t want to tell the stories of those with DSDs for them and fit it into an agenda. They need to be enabled to speak for themselves.

Finally, radfems like TRAs have a habit of having one person with a DSD speaking for all others. I think like us in the alphabet soup, people with one condition may tend toward wildly different positions on this from others.

I think we do need to hear the perspective of biological males with XY chromosomes who have complete androgen insensitivity. Like Hanne Gaby Odiele. Or several others on YouTube. They also seem to identify as women (though I guess Hanne has at times says she doesn’t feel like a man or a woman but still goes by “she”). From my experience they also seem to be male-attracted, which would make them technically homosexual but most don’t identify as such because they don’t identify as men.

Also the fact that they are males who cannot process testosterone and they tend to be male-attracted gives credence to homosexuality being based in prenatal testosterone exposure.

Just some thoughts. I’m not an expert. But I also don’t want to be dogmatic or a hypocrite.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

we had a long term user here who was intersex who hated being used like the article described...he could go into much more depth about it.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t want to be like the TRAs. I don’t want to tell the stories of those with DSDs for them and fit it into an agenda. They need to be enabled to speak for themselves.

Finally, radfems like TRAs have a habit of having one person with a DSD speaking for all others. I think like us in the alphabet soup, people with one condition may tend toward wildly different positions on this from others.

Couldn't agree more. Sometimes I wonder whether we ought to try to reach out to other minority groups harmed by TQ+ organizations, such as people on the spectrum (ASD), intersex, etc... It seems like each of these groups is fighting a separate, isolated battle against authoritarian TQ+ organizations.