DiscussionThe same Colorado baker who refused to bake the gay wedding cake is now being fined for refusing to bake a transition cake.

submitted by julesburm1891 from npr.org

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[–]julesburm1891[S] 39 insightful - 4 fun39 insightful - 3 fun40 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

Here’s my take on this:

  1. This is being marketed as an LGBT issue when, this time, it is only a T issue. Of course it is.
  2. Given the guy’s past, this doesn’t seem like a good faith request to bake a cake. It feels like he’s been singled out to harass by an activist. (And we’re getting drug into the saga even when it now has nothing to do with us.)
  3. Unpopular opinion. I think there’s a difference between refusing to serve a group and refusing specific requests that violate someone’s religious beliefs. A baker refuses to bake a basic birthday cake for me because I’m a lesbian? That’s hateful and shouldn’t be allowed. A baker doesn’t want to bake a cake for my same-sex wedding because he or she is a devout Catholic and doesn’t support same-sex marriage? Okay. Fine. Whatever. They can keep their conscience clean and I can give an obscene amount of money to a baker who doesn’t have a problem with it. (That being said, the baker in the latter scenario is expected to take it on the chin if he or she loses all my business and/or all my friends’ and family’s business because of the refusal. The baker doesn’t get to have his cake and eat it.)

Anyways, what are your thoughts on this issue?

[–]SuperGayIsOkay 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Unpopular opinion. I think there’s a difference between refusing to serve a group and refusing specific requests that violate someone’s religious beliefs. A baker refuses to bake a basic birthday cake for me because I’m a lesbian? That’s hateful and shouldn’t be allowed. A baker doesn’t want to bake a cake for my sake-sex wedding because he or she is a devout Catholic and doesn’t support same-sex marriage? Okay. Fine. Whatever.

100% the correct take on this. This isn't a lifesaving or essential service, such as medical care or plumbing. This is a baker being asked to create something inherently artistic. Is it shitty that he's a homophobe? Yes, but there are limits to what someone in a creative job can be asked to make and artists generally have "I reserve the right to say no to any commission for any reason" clauses. A cake is something they could simply bake themselves, it's not as if he's literally the only baker with the tools or skills in the state.

I don't like that he's a homophobe but it's pretty clear he's being targeted to be made an example of. It struck me as an attempt to create a clash of first amendment rights vs gay rights, and it's especially clear from this second attempt that it's some self-styled activists deliberately enflaming tensions with religious people when it's unnecessary.

This is very different from say that office that refused to hand out gay marriage licenses after it was legalized in the state, where a state worker essentially was refusing to do the job she was elected to do and was a job that couldn't be done by someone else, and was ultimately fired as a result.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m all for antidiscrimination laws, but context should always be factored in. The reasoning behind the discrimination, the effect of the discrimination, and in what way was the discrimination carried out should be considered. Furthermore, a business would have sold you something that was made, but didn’t want to make a specific item for you and would not have made it for any customer, then obviously you weren’t discriminated against. Shit like this is why a growing number of people oppose antidiscrimination laws. If these laws are going to continue to exist, they might as well include sexual orientation (but not gender identity, whatever that means), but if somebody doesn't want these laws to exist at all, then I don’t care to disagree with him or her because of cases like this.

[–]SuperGayIsOkay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, this isn't helping anyone. This is only hurting our attempts to craft and enact actual antidiscrimination laws. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.