DiscussionWhy are Twitter and Reddit so out of touch with reality and popular opinion regarding statements of fact about transgender people?

submitted by snub-nosedmonkey from self.LGBDropTheT

I'll start by saying I accept that people experience gender dysphoria, and I'm more than happy to refer to a transwoman as 'she' and a transman as 'he'. However, in the biological sense, it's a statement of fact (not opinion) to say that a transwoman is a man. Saying this on Twitter or Reddit is somehow hugely controversial, regardless of the context in which it is used. I'd accept that if someone was making this statement to deny someones gender identity it could be offensive, but when made clearly as a statement of biological fact the controversy is unwarranted.

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[–]CuntWorshiperWomenholic full time | vagina fetishist part-time 39 insightful - 1 fun39 insightful - 0 fun40 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm more than happy to refer to a transwoman as 'she' and a transman as 'he'.

That’s the reason why stating reality is now controversial. When you all agree on collectively lie about something as important and inescapable as sex not to hurt the inner feelings of mentally unstable people, you are actively closing the door in the face of what you call biological facts.

I'd accept that if someone was making this statement to deny someones gender identity it could be offensive, but when made clearly as a statement of biological fact the controversy is unwarranted.

Biology, material and objective reality deny someones gender identity if you consider it offensive or not is up to you, will you give up biological fact not to be offensive? You can’t picky and choose when it’s ok and when it’s not ok to lie about reality. If you are going to lie in x, z, y situations, why not also lie in t, b, a situations? It’s always a lie anyways. And that’s the problem with lies, when you start lie is very hard to quit.

Ask yourself:

If you are ok with calling men by female pronouns and women by male pronouns, then pronouns are not based on sex, right!? If pronouns are not based on sex they are based on what?

If woman and man are “identities” one can choose based on anything they please, then woman and man are not based on sex because if woman and man are based on sex, one don’t get to choose it. Which one is it?

If you go along with the gender identity delusions you can’t really complain about science denialism. You either believe in gender identity or you don’t.

Right now you make even less sense than gender specials because they at least stick to a side. But I do understand you. I also have been in the same spot as you, doing mental gymnastics in the attempt of remain politically correct while try to be rational and loyal to the truth but I’ll tell you. You can’t do that. Gender ideology and objective reality are mutually exclusive. Eventually, you will have to choose the truth or the feel good lies. You’re standing on so much logic inconsistency that will become unbearable.

[–]SerpensInferna 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here's my take.

Most transwomen these days are not actually experiencing gender dysphoria (which, like you, I accept as a mental condition that causes hardship and suffering). Most who identify as transwomen are AGP and/or on the spectrum, or are frankly depraved deviants who find acceptance and protection in the wider trans movement.

There is a big crossover between the above-mentioned groups and people who either work in tech or live almost their entire lives virtually (either because it is easier for them to interact with others due to their social issues, or they are in search of other deviants like themselves and find community in the dark corners of the internet). This leads to them having a disproportionately large presence and therefore influence on social media. They know their ideology is built on a house of cards - if they didn't, they wouldn't so hysterically defend it. The minute any sane person starts questioning that house of cards, they fear the exposure and whip themselves up into a frothing frenzy. Their ideology cannot be examined because it ceases to make sense and reveals the dangers inherent in it. And they have no more protection for their fetishes that are looked down upon by wider society with unease at best and disgust at worst.

There is also a large amount of very vulnerable, lonely, impressionable teenagers out there on the internet that get swept up in this movement. We also know teenagers are prone to group violence and bullying, and it's easy enough to feel part of something when you have a common (albeit imaginary) enemy in TERFs, for instance.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can't speak to twitter but I'm convinced that reddit is a grooming site. Spend any amount of time in the trans subs and it becomes readily apparent that they're populated--seemingly exclusively--by teenagers, for whom the pedo admins have created an environment censorious of any heresy against queer theory. The isolation resulting from lockdowns and school closures forced people online more, which means more time in echo chambers for reddit's trans userbase and helps explain the steep rise in insanity. Finally, contemporary trans activism is tailor-made for Narcissists, and reddit is a place where they can go and get showered in affirmations and enact/demand retribution against anyone who threatens their fragile self-worth.

I'd accept that if someone was making this statement to deny someones gender identity it could be offensive, but when made clearly as a statement of biological fact the controversy is unwarranted.

As for this, while I have seen some trans people on reddit insist that they literally are the opposite sex, most are hellbent on selling the fiction of "man" and "woman" as social constructs, distinct from male and female, which is why people can usually get away with referring to transwomen as male but will catch a ban for calling them men.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well reddit literally tried to move a pedo AGP into a high ranking position and then we're blacking out any mention of the name and banning people who didn't even know what was going on...

[–]JulienMayfair 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

More broadly, what we have in the U.S. right now is a corporate techology elite that's broadly out of touch with popular opinion because these companies all tend to be run by people from prestigious universities that teach gender ideology as fact.

At best, these companies are afraid of being targeted for being racist or transphobic in a way that affects their bottom line.

[–]kwallio 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The pronouns are rohypnol article:

https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

When I first read this I was more or less in the same position as the OP, that using someones pronouns was NBD so why not. But after reading this I realized that its not ok, actually.

[–]Femaleisnthateful 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Twitter at least has a large number of gender critical users, even if they're subject to frequent and arbitrary bans. Reddit is an echochamber manipulated by the type of people who associate with Aimee Challenor. It has been purged of all gender critical and female-focused content, with the exception of r/detrans. I stumbled across a thread referencing Marion Miller, and it was a shit show. People saying things like 'TERFS are trying to gatekeep the word 'woman'. Fuck them', and the like.

I've given up on Reddit for as a platform for free speech. I only hope someone can one day expose what's going on behind the scenes to make it the pedo paradise it has become.

[–]chandra 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Devil's advocate, because we need to understand the Trans position instead of straw-manning it:

Merely mentioning sex in a discussion about trans people does actually undermine their gender identity: to them sex is (or should be) as socially relevant as whether you've had your tonsils removed, and bringing it up is nothing more than a way to separate trans women from actual women. Which, let's be honest, it is: we all know when we say that trans women are biologically male we're saying that their 'gender identity' doesn't mean shit and that their male sex is what matters most, that trans women are at most honorary women, but not women in any way that actually matters.

[–]MyLongestJourney 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

we're saying that their 'gender identity' doesn't mean shit

Well yes we do. Their gender identity is not a woman's identity but a deluded man's perception of what a woman is.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Fair point, to which I have two responses:

-If someone brings up sex apropos of nothing or even within a philosophical discussion, your point stands. But if we're talking about self-ID laws then I don't think it does, since women's-only spaces/sports weren't segregated on the basis on gender identity/femininity in the first place. They can't say that's invalidating without abandoning their claim that sex ≠ gender.

-More importantly, why should others be obligated to affirm their worldview? I don't owe queer theory my faith any more than I do Christianity or Islam. I can see why they're upset by this, but no one owes them assent. I don't believe what they believe and I don't have to. It's really quite totalitarian to demand otherwise.

(I don't mean to be combative, by the way. I really appreciate your comment because I agree that we need to address their best arguments.)

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Appreciate both the original comment and yours. It's important to make these logical connections between observations.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But without sex their gender identity isn’t meaningful. Without sex they don’t have a gender identity. They would merely be accepting the material reality of their bodies and lives. Without their sex, they’re not trans-anything. To refer to them as transgender is to implicitly recognize their sex. If I told them I’m a trans woman, what would their rebuttal be as to why they are one but I’m not?

[–]DiscoStegosaurus 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t believe that we should be indulging their delusions by referring to them with the wrong pronouns for their sex. That’s part of what got us into this mess in the first place.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To answer your title directly: Because everyone who disagrees with gender identity ideology or says anything that may be perceived even remotely harmful about the transgender movement, is censored and/or banned. Reddit is a really, really effective echo chamber. Twitter is not quite as heavy-handed yet but it's getting there.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but many "powermods" (moderators who moderate multiple huge subreddits, e.g. a single person moderating over a dozen 100k+ subscriber subreddits) are actually transwomen. These powermods often work together to censor any user or comment that does not exactly toe their beliefs regarding transgenderism. I can find some names and examples if you're interested. Some r/actuallesbians mods are powermods, for example.

I'll start by saying I accept that people experience gender dysphoria

Funny, I think this is something almost everybody, whether LGB or transgender-identified, can agree on. Where we disagree is what the solution to gender dysphoria can be. This space s/lgbdropthet exists on Saidit because we were banned from Reddit for saying, "Maybe there are better solutions to gender dysphoria than transitioning." According to trans rights activists, that's a transphobic thing to suggest.

[–]fuck_reddit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Smart people are very good at convincing themselves of bullshit when they don’t have to face reality. Money does a good job of sheltering one from reality. People who were ostracized when they were young can become vengeful and controlling when they achieve authority. People who are good with computers were often ostracized.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Twitter and Reddit are financed and run by pedophiles, who see le trans as fellow travelers.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Your submission has been removed due to:

    Rule 4. Disallowed Language

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    We suggest using the following terminology instead: trans-identified (fe)male, trans (wo)man, trans natal (fe)male, trans people, FTM / MTF

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