all 19 comments

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 38 insightful - 3 fun38 insightful - 2 fun39 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Groups need to be exclusive by nature. Call it discriminatory all you want, but it works. Gay men need our own spaces. Lesbians need their own spaces. Bisexual women need their own spaces. Bisexual men need their own spaces. In fact, straight men need their own spaces, and straight women need their own spaces. The public space should be open to everyone, but private spaces can be exclusive, and some of these spaces need to be exclusive in order to function and be cohesive.

We should just form our own spaces and be openly exclusionary. We will get shit from this, but we just need to stand up for ourselves. At this point, what have we got to lose?

[–]bopomofodojo 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Without gatekeeping and exclusion, "groups" as a concept become fundamentally impossible. The demands that anyone be allowed in any group for any reason turns those groups into public spaces, not groups.

Which, I suspect, is part of the TQ+ goal, stated or not.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 16 insightful - 7 fun16 insightful - 6 fun17 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

In fact, straight men need their own spaces

As a woman, I shuddered. Some fuck shit happens when those guys get together...

Jokes aside, yes I agree with your post.

[–]fuck_reddit 19 insightful - 21 fun19 insightful - 20 fun20 insightful - 21 fun -  (0 children)

Ah yes, bowling leagues are well known for their heinous acts. /s

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 23 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You represent the part of themselves that they hate and wish to eliminate. They're homophobes, they will always seek you out and try to erase you in trying to erase their own homosexuality.

[–]MaxDefacto 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I find it funny that the mods are complaining about doing exactly what a mod is supposed to do (weed through content) regardless of their overzealous censorship of anything remotely pro-gay and anti-trans. It’s extremely unfortunate that the gay rights movement has been completely squashed in the name of transgenderism.

[–]TiredTrendersSuper-gay 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Honestly, and if they hate having to weed through so many "toxic" posts then perhaps they should consider making the group exclusive again. I mean really, why are women either pretending to be men or nonbinary or etc. being allowed into groups made specifically for natal homosexual men?

What is it with all these wimps these days bending over backwards to appease the TQ+ crowd? It's clearly only made things worse than before yet they continue welcoming this nonsense into their communities. I just don't get it.

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In this group, the movement to make the group inclusive came from younger members who have been trained that inclusion is good and exclusion is bad, and there was some fairly overt ageism involved in some of the fights over changing the nature of the group with older members being called behind the time or obsolete. And we know how age works in the gay community.

In addition, transgender people and allies slowly maneuvered themselves into moderator positions, and when they had gained a critical mass, they issued an edict that anyone advocating exclusively gay male policies would be instantly banned.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Idk what it is, probably obsessive behavior or something... But they have an insane capacity to find their way into positions of power in the most obscure corners of the internet.

[–]IAmSatanVery... very... very gay. 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know right! It's quite impressive in a way.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly about the wimps thing. If you’re too soft, bad people will take advantage of it and walk all over you. And a lot of gay men, lesbians and bisexuals have become far too soft.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 16 insightful - 6 fun16 insightful - 5 fun17 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

You guys need to make your own giggle, gaygle

[–]divingrightintowork 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There's a big issue of people not being taught to take ownership for their issues it feels like. Just like, your anxiety disorder or whatever isn't a free pass to be an asshole. The whole thing about being like "I have anxiety," was a subtext of like "please be patient with me," which was a request, not a demand, and now it's just gone way past that....

On an unrelated note - it'll be interesting to see what happens to this place -

https://www.eastonmountain.org/history-2

it was a gay man's retreat and it's been "trying to be more inclusive," we'll see how it goes.... last I talked they were having a bit of a hard time including trans men in gay men's sexual pleasure workshops because they're hella dick focused (duh) - but you can guess what dickcentric sexual workshops exclude, right?

[–]Virginia_Plain 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Easton Mountain is making a bad decision. Sadly, I have been involved in organizations like this (rad fae stuff), and the response I have seen to becoming more "inclusive" is for the newcomers to basically tell the gay men to sit down, shut up, and fuck off if they won't do the first two. I've said it before and I'll say it again: gay people's biggest mistake was to think that homophobia only came from a certain religious/political viewpoint. Like it or not, there is a certain aversion many people have to two men or two women having sex, and religion and conservative politics are just two of the justifications people can use.

Gay people need to emphasize that homosexuality is good in and of itself. Not for the sake of undermining western capitalist patriarchy, not for the sake of breaking the binary, not for the sake of sticking it to your uptight Catholic parents who are freaked out by QuEeR sEx,. If the squares are ok with it, then fine. Besides, I think a salt-and-pepper guy in khakis can be a sexy look. It does not need to be re-imagined and re-branded to appease the tastes of the theythem uglyhair brigade.

Those who get gay men to doubt themselves, to say that maybe they are the intolerant ones by not wanting this or that in their romantic lives, are far worse enemies. Open-mindedness is understanding that there are people who might want things that you don't necessarily understand, not twisting yourself into knots trying to please everyone. Those who tell gay men and lesbians they are "closed-minded" for not accommodating them into their sex-lives are parasites who should not be given the time of day. Maybe they should not be so closed-minded as to shut off the idea that not everything can and should be for everyone! I would never go to a lesbian sex workshop and ask them to have a little intermission where the gay guys can come in and talk about prostate massage techniques.

There are plenty of seminars and resources for trans-inclusive sexuality, and plenty of people who would be interested in attending. Good for them! The major LGBT organizations are mainly focused on funding trans issues, and there are several monied trans people who could do what gay men did and pool their resources to create community spaces. Instead, they want to take advantage of infrastructure that has already been established.

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

:standing ovation: It's certainly not like people aren't ready to dump money into dubious trains tracks.

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This group seems similar in outlook and sensibility to the group I've been talking about. They will likely run into the same problems I've described where when you try to include people whose concept of identity is fundamentally contradictory to your own, conflict will inevitably ensue, and it's not a conflict that can really be managed because it is so fundamental. It will become a pitched battle with bad feelings on all sides, and some trans person involved in it will triangulate the conflict via social media bringing all sorts of external attacks and negative publicity on a community that was previously minding its own business -- because that's how they operate.

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ugh I'm kind of curious to see if I can stalk some social media to find trains trying to tear the group down, but I also don't want to. But yeah, it's all just so ugh... like can these TMs define what is more essential to being a homosexual than two men getting each other off with their dicks. Anything other than that is just weird fetishization and stereotypes. But even worse than that anything that has a whiff of guys getting each other off is "exclusionary" and hurtful and oiiii... ffs.