all 29 comments

[–][deleted] 47 insightful - 1 fun47 insightful - 0 fun48 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

These perverts going after the 1 single demographic that doesn't want to involve dicks in their sex lives need to go fuck themselves.

[–]JulienMayfair 34 insightful - 12 fun34 insightful - 11 fun35 insightful - 12 fun -  (2 children)

go fuck themselves

Which is the solution to their problem.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 20 insightful - 14 fun20 insightful - 13 fun21 insightful - 14 fun -  (0 children)

They could also ...go validate themselves.

[–]Rosefield 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

A solution they don't want because they aren't gay.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay 33 insightful - 5 fun33 insightful - 4 fun34 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I guess if you feel entitled to validation then reality feels like oppression

[–]JulienMayfair 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I remember when we actually taught people that they were responsible for their own feelings. We really screwed up as a culture when we started down this path of making everyone responsible for everyone else's feelings because it ends up handing leverage over to the most fucked-up people.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I can’t help but think of the “reasonable person standard” under the law, which is an important underlying legal concept in the U.S. common law system. This idea is crucial to offenses base in negligence under tort law (torts are about civil legal violations where liability means the defendant pays money to the plaintiff if found liable as opposed to criminal legal violations subject to the criminal justice system).

The “reasonable person standard” is the idea that behavior that would not offend a reasonable person cannot be actionable. Not to be confused with the doctrine of the “eggshell plaintiff,” which is that the pre-existing frailty of a plaintiff is not a defense to liability and does not mitigate damages. The latter means that if you hit someone with brittle bone disease or hemophilia with your car because you were driving negligently, you’re liable for the damage that actually results from that even if it’s far beyond what the results would be for the average person (since the average doesn’t have those conditions). You injure the fingers of a professional concert pianist? You’re liable for the consequential damages that factor in the injury you caused to their ability to earn a living if they now can’t play in some major concert. You take your plaintiff as you find them, as they say.

But the difference here is that in order to be liable, you have to be violating some duty of care. The hypersensitivity around stupid stuff like pronouns is essentially imposing a duty of care on people that did not exist before under the law and in society and that doesn’t seem like a natural development but rather some externally forced system of control from the top down that is at odds with reality and is counter to human beings coexisting peacefully in society because it is imposing on human beings a legal and moral responsibility for every other human being’s feelings. It’s making us all have to be therapists and manage the trauma of others and prioritize everyone else’s feelings ahead of our own. And it is preventing ordinary interactions between people because no one wants to be canceled and everyone is on edge as to people being out to get them.

Or it is alternatively creating an intentional tort out of ordinary human communication and otherwise mundane momentary interactions like the hourly workers dealing with the MtF meltdowns. To commit a legal act of negligence, you must owe the victim some duty of care. To commit an intentional tort like intentional infliction of emotional distress you have to perform an intentional act that is considered outrageous conduct. “Outrageous conduct” has always been a very high standard that ordinary sexual harassment and nonconsensual sexual touching has famously failed to meet (e.g., Paula Jones v. Bill Clinton). But now using sex-based pronouns for everyone is being considered outrageous conduct. And using sex-based pronouns for everyone is apparently something that we are saying a reasonable person would get upset about.

Would an actual reasonable person get upset that you assumed their sex based pronouns based on their visible sex? No, but under the law, the standard is a “reasonable person in like circumstances” and so it becomes a question of what circumstances can you factor in. They’re making the standard “someone who claims to have some gender identity regardless of any changes they’ve made to their body or lives” and basically saying that it’s reasonable for someone like that or even a Yaniv type person to be offended by use of their sex-based pronouns.

[–]JulienMayfair 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The hypersensitivity around stupid stuff like pronouns is essentially imposing a duty of care on people that did not exist before under the law and in society and that doesn’t seem like a natural development but rather some externally forced system of control from the top down that is at odds with reality and is counter to human beings coexisting peacefully in society because it is imposing on human beings a legal and moral responsibility for every other human being’s feelings. It’s making us all have to be therapists and manage the trauma of others and prioritize everyone else’s feelings ahead of our own. And it is preventing ordinary interactions between people because no one wants to be canceled and everyone is on edge as to people being out to get them.

This is a brilliant summation, very much appreciated.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The hypersensitivity around stupid stuff like pronouns is essentially imposing a duty of care on people that did not exist before under the law and in society and that doesn’t seem like a natural development but rather some externally forced system of control from the top down that is at odds with reality and is counter to human beings coexisting peacefully in society because it is imposing on human beings a legal and moral responsibility for every other human being’s feelings. It’s making us all have to be therapists and manage the trauma of others and prioritize everyone else’s feelings ahead of our own.

THIS. Excellent observation! It also dovetails with something that's occurred to me: the difference between how we're treated by those we're close to vs those we're not.

With the former types of people (friends and family), we have the right to expect considerable leeway; that they'll make significant-- though not unlimited!-- allowances for our idiosyncracies. Such as psychological problems. We don't have to be on our best behavior all the time; if we're going to share ourselves with them-- let them truly know us-- we can't be. That's the nature of personal relationships. Unlike the interactions we have with everybody else, which are (and should be) comparatively formal: you don't expect such accommodation there.

What these genderologists are demanding, it seems to me, is that the world at large treat trans people as though they were our friends/family. Intimates. But, crucially, without the element which makes such relationships work: that it's a two-way street. Sure, you can take liberties with those you're close to... but they can do the same with you. You also need to be understanding of THEIR idiosyncracies. I never see any sign of this from the "respect my pronouns!!!" crowd; they seem completely oblivious to the fact that OTHER people have trauma, and emotional vulnerabilities, and psychological issues. Maybe really serious ones. But never mind: only theirs count.

[–]julesburm1891 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This really sounds like a him problem, not a lesbians problem.

[–]MyLongestJourney 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

May he never get laid,the rapey bastard.

[–]JulienMayfair 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is also just another example of a strategy of manipulative rhetoric that tries to weasel its way around the main point: Anyone with half a brain listening to this person can easily identify him as male just from his voice and his chin in about two seconds or less.

Desire is holistic. It's not just "genital preferences" or "penis disgust," it's the whole package, including your mental health or lack thereof. It's the very fact that you are intent on manipulating your way around consent and making an entire segment of the population that's not interested in you pretend that they are and/or tiptoe around your feelings.

All these things make you unattractive to lesbians.

[–]usehername 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

He's an entitled incel, but really doesn't look that bad physically. Proof that the reason he can't get laid is his shitty attitude. Go for someone interested sicko.

[–]Eurowoman24 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

nah would not fuck. What's even more shocking is also the disregard for trauma, let's say you were raped or tried to be straight because of pressure.. well your supposed to just suck his dick anyways.

[–]usehername 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

If he had a good personality I might ¯_(ツ)_/¯ but who knows what horrors CSH (cross-sex hormones) have wreaked on his body. But you're 100% right that he's a sick, rapey piece of shit with a vile personality who doesn't care about others. My point is that if he didn't target lesbians and was a good person he'd get at least some propositions, vs. zero because the people he wants aren't capable of being attracted to him and he's a rapist piece of shit, but maybe that's appealing to him.

[–][deleted] 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

these weirdos have never heard of straight women who like feminine guys. there's actually quite a few out there. no gender identity or HRT required. this reminds me of the whole incel thing. the reason you're not getting laid isn't because ur feminine or short or ugly or whatever. straight women can be into all sorts of types of men. it's because you are a gross, creepy, disgusting person who fetishizes lesbians.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

these weirdos have never heard of straight women who like feminine guys.

A liking that is shared by numerous bi women, too! (Source: am one such bi woman.) Yeah, pretty, feminine guys have always had plenty of female admirers-- David Bowie's enduring status as catnip to women being a well-known example-- and should have no problem finding a girlfriend... but only among women who are MALE-ATTRACTED. And, of course, as you rightly observe... only if the man in question doesn't have the kind of personality that cancels out his otherwise-attractive features.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah David Bowie and Prince are good examples, and I vaguely remember Tim Curry talking about how he had an explosion of female admirers and fans after Rocky Horror Picture show. So, checks out. I honestly believe these incels would have no problem getting straight and bisexual girlfriends if they had at least tolerable personalities.

[–]dramasexual 14 insightful - 7 fun14 insightful - 6 fun15 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

Die mad about it.

[–]Rosefield 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

I heads on certain websites the answer to trans madness is "Seethe and dilate".

[–]blargus 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Watching that person talk reminded me of the start of the courtroom scene at the end of the Chernobyl series where the prosecutor-type person makes a long doctrinal recitation that doesn't mean anything or is relevant to anyone who isn't one of the handful of people deep into that specific thing. It's basically finely-worded grammatically correct nonsense to appease someone far away.

[–]fuck_reddit 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's the type of argument that can't be easily defeated by a well thought out response, but can be defeated effortlessly with "yeah, so?"

[–]SnowAssMan 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"transmisogynistic" fucking hell, he means "misandREEEE!".

I like the "trans-feminine" label though, as it's more concordant with reality. It makes more sense than "trans-womxyn".

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

there's actually surprisingly a heterosexual transsexual in the replies saying he's a straight man and not a lesbian or female. i've never actually seen a straight male transsexual have a grip on reality before.

[–]Shales123 10 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

If you want a pro-penis environment go hang out with gay men. Or straight men. Or straight women. Literally anyone except for lesbians

[–]Rosefield 7 insightful - 11 fun7 insightful - 10 fun8 insightful - 11 fun -  (0 children)

Wait r/actuallesbians always claims how much lesbians love dick! Are they...lying??

[–]fijupanda 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

widespread... oh for flying penis sake's. how many phallic centric religions and institutions does one need on this idiotic planet to feel precious enough on a nano second to nano second basis?

mother of god, please send the Amazons back. We need them. Amenwomben !

[–]fuck_reddit 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Feel like we have to get bottom surgery...to be a valid member of the lesbian community." Fuck right off, if you actually were a Lesbian, no one could invalidate you as a member. Further, more LGB don't care to be members of these so-called communities, so continue to fuck right off.