Discussioncall for opinion: is pornography an LGB issue?

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[–][deleted] 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

To clarify: I have always considered pornography to be an issue for lesbian and female bisexuals. Even setting aside the rampant abuse and trafficking of women in the industry, lesbian porn depicts an unhealthy, unrealistic, fetishistic portrayal of lesbian sex and sexuality, and contributes to straight men's degrading attitudes towards us.

I have always thought gay male porn is immune to this, because if there's no women in it, what could be the harm right? And given that porn has historically been one of the few ways young gay and bi men could explore their sexuality, I never felt comfortable criticizing it. However, this post on tumblr by a gay man has me reconsidering this position.

Is pornography harmful to LGB sexuality and natural sexual orientation development, and should be considered an LGB issue? Interested in gay/bi men's thoughts on this.

[–]boypower 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I can't say anything about the gay porn industry, obviously it's a toxic industry just like the rest of the porn industry, but I don't know enough to criticize it.

What I can say is that when gay/bi boys grow up and start exploring their interest in the same sex, the first thing we come across in our exploration is often gay porn. In no way whatsoever can that be considered a good starting point for any gay/bi youth. There's no gradual easing into one's sexuality, it's a lot of guilt, shame and confusion about who we are, and when we try to look for answers, we often than not come face to face with gay pornography and that can and will often have an effect on how we view intimacy between men and how we view our bodies that can often be destructive for the rest of our lives. While some kids might be lucky to have good parents, good education regarding gay sex and sexuality, and have a safe way to find and indulge in gay male media aimed at gay teens, most of us weren't that lucky. We get dropped straight into the world of homoerotica and pornography; no talking about same sex crushes with your pals, no putting up posters of boy band members or handsome actors, no reading gay teen literature, just a pretty steep drop into the world of gay pornography.

I'm obviously not saying that pornography immediately ruins the lives of gay youth and their perceptions of themselves, but regardless of what you think of the pornography industry, you can't honestly say that watching gay pornography is a good way for gay youth to explore their sexuality, especially when they might already feels confused, angry, sad, depressed, anxious, ashamed and guilty. So overall I'd say gay pornography is an issue for gay/bi teens specifically.

[–]grammaroo 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (13 children)

no it isnt. and you're being naive and honestly pretty fucking stupid. the ONLY access gay kids have to homosexuality is usually gay porn. it doesnt affect us THAT much but the alternative to that is high depression or suicide because other than gay porn, our alternative is church homophobia. you make it seem like we have some luxurious alternative. And gay porn slowly spreads throughout the internet, "activating" bisexuals as well. I dont exactly like gay porn but it's important to young gay kids being brainwashed by heterosexual porn and propaganda. Your comment is out of context and speaks so foolishly as if we have power and porn is a nuisance to our perfect imaginary way of reaching out to gay kids. We cant. So the porn stays.

[–]boypower 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Good grief, I'm not trying to remove porn. I'm just saying that kids using pornography to explore their sexuality is not healthy at all, and that kids almost only having gay porn as a reference when they are trying to figure themselves out IS an issue as pornography does NOT paint a realistic picture on male intimacy. I'm not going on an anti-porn crusade but you are being completely deranged as if there's only two choices: gay porn or church homophobia.

[–][deleted]  (11 children)

[removed]

    [–]boypower 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I'm sorry but I'm SURE we can build a community around same sex attracted people without including acceptance of gay children and teens exclusively watching pornography to satisfy their exploration regarding their sexuality?

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I think both of you make good points here, honestly. Would it be safe to say that in addition to pornography, there should be more than just one way for gay/bi boys to explore their sexuality? I'm not sure what this would look like, however. The only thing I'm aware of is gay romance in young adult fiction and gay erotica that's written by gay male authors, but you kind of have to seek that out. Maybe sex ed, or LGB spaces for teenagers where other boys can meet each other? That would require the establishment of an LGB space for teenagers to begin with. High schools may or may not be a good place, depending on how conservative the area is, teenagers may not want to be outed by joining... if it's not in high school, it would be harder for kids to join is also a downside... and in either case, the parents would be aware and that could be a problem... I'm not sure. How do we outreach to LGB teenagers and create a space that's safe for them to socially connect and explore their sexuality in with other teenagers in the current homophobic climate? It's a difficult question.

    [–]boypower 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Well nobody said it'd be easy. I got a lot of help with just meeting gay people for the first time online on forums. That was really the start of my self-acceptance, to have direct contact with someone who was also gay and completely open about it. It cleared my minor gender dysphoria then and there as well. In terms of sexual exploration though, and not just coming into terms with being gay, obviously porn was there, but I also read non-explicit (as well as explicit) boys love manga and while that genre obviously has some big issues, it was nice to have a story, fully-realized male characters acting out a gay love story. Anime, video games, manga and cartoons also were very near and dear to my heart, and I've had an active imagination since I was a child, and eventually the male characters from different series started to appear in my fantasies, often not explicit but rather bigger stories with my own original male characters and whichever character I fancied that time. It sounds pretty lame but I still do it to this day and I'm 26!

    Overall I think cultivating creativity and imagination in gay teens and meeting other gay teens is generally the best way to include something other than just porn in ones sexual exploration. Obviously there's a lot more to it and a lot more to change (parenting, media, education...), but that's just my anecdote on how I dealt with my sexuality when I was a teen beyond looking at porn. I wouldn't say porn scarred me or anything, but I don't think it really helped me either to achieve anything except being wank material, and I do sometimes worry about my porn consumption habits to this day.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    thanks for the insight! yeah, yuri and shoujo-ai were very dear to me as a teenager too!! I always went on mangafox and read the non-explicit girls love things (the explicit stuff scared me, lol).

    yeah I think cultivating online LGB communities is important for this reason... in case if teenagers can't meet or connect IRL, they have somewhere to go to talk about issues and ask questions. I think online spaces is definitely a reasonable, tangible goal for LGB organizing to accomplish. and promoting gay male fiction creators as well.

    recently there was a scandal with a gay male YA author, Malulani Moreno, who wrote a book about a love story between two teenage boys, getting cancelled on twitter by the TQ for problematic tweets and thoughtcrimes, such as misgendering a "genderqueer" person and saying more male authors should write gay love stories instead of female authors. I thought that fiasco was depressing.

    [–]boypower 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I used mangafox actively as well! Ah the memories!

    The issue with LGB communities and spaces especially for young people is that they are going to be riddled with predators if they are not moderated well. LGB teens are often very vulnerable and that makes them targets for predators and we can see some of that happening in the current trans discourse where confused youth are being '' mentored '' and '' assisted '' by adult perverts.

    I met like, 2 gay guys, 2 bisexual guys and 1 lesbian in a forum for Japanese self-published indie video games and music. From there I progressed onto tumblr and the gays wouldn't stop popping up! Also met a group of gays who were all fed up with trans stuff on tumblr as well, after like 10 years of being there, and now we have a Discord. You don't necessarily need a LGB-specific site to meet other gays, most of my acquaintances I've just met through exploring the internet and it's various messaging boards that focus on my interests!

    I heard about that case, it was super fucked up how all the gendies and women ganged up on him. But Malulani should've waited until after his book was released to throw some deserved shots at gay male romance as a theme and a subject always being produced and made by women for other women. He shot himself in the foot honestly, even if his book being cancelled is absolutely ludicrous and he didn't deserve it in any way.

    [–]grammaroo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    all your suggestions are great, but the problem is we never had access to gay and lesbian children since the common belief about homosexuality is that we recruit gay kids and not that theyre born gay. We HAD a way to reach them through schools but that was hijacked by the gender ideology assholes. Porn is problematic but and it being the best option shows how terrible our options are. We just hope they understand that it "activates" their homosexuality and theyre not too damaged by it. It's like playing with fire. It's bad but until we can find a better way, it's the only appropriate way. And just look at heterosexuals. They have trouble with it as well and theyre like 90% of earth. So if they cant even direct their own children properly then we have no proper chance either. But gay porn tends to sometimes be way, way better than straight porn or lesbian porn (directed by straight men).

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    What your saying makes sense to me.

    [–]NutterButterFlutterStill waving into the void[M] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Express yourself in a civil manner (hint, not calling people names for having a different opinion is a good start) or you're getting banned. Again.