Targeting / HarassmentRespecting the "Pronouns" of Horrible People v. the Sexuality of "Bad" People

submitted by fuck_reddit from (self.LGBDropTheT)

I just saw a post on Facebook about respecting Jenner's pronouns and not voting for him, and it made me think about the whole concept of pronouns that TRA's expound compared to sexuality. They demand that even the most horrible trans people be addressed by the proper pronouns, but when they decide a homo/bisexual man or woman is a "bad" person, they begin unleashing a maelstrom of slurs and abuse. I know other people have noticed this, but what specifically do you guys think underlies this? Why do they demand respect for child abusers and (in this case) negligent drivers who likely transitioned to avoid a legal case, but when a homosexual person is "bad," they become the target of "justified" abuse? It seems to me like they're trying to legitimize trans people by demanding compliance in all cases, but in actuality, they are just demanding we cater to the delusion of an awful person.

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[–]grammaroo 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Because they know theyre straight people and they know we're a minority. Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is still a straight man attracted to women. He's been raised with an intense disgust for gay people all his life. It's not like he's undone any indoctrination. He's also a straight man so it's not like he's magically removed all his misogyny when identifying as a woman. When he's provoked enough by a gay man, he just lets all his heterosexuality out. When he's provoked enough by a woman, he'll let all his maleness out. I know rape tweets are common on twitter but one that im reminded of when i went browsing through twitter on my own is some woman commenting on the logic of transexuality and it was pinned and retweeted (not sure what the proper term is) by a Trans Identified Male with the caption: "hold on. going outside for a sec. Where are my raping shoes". It just goes to show you they KNOW theyre not who they say they are. When 2 gay people disagree or deeply hate each other, they dont use the F-slur because theyre both gay and it cancels out so it makes no sense. But i've had "bisexual/pansexual men say it to me, straight women who "identify" as gay men. It's the first word out of their mouths when they get provoked. Any group who has the "can i say the f-slur...can i say slurs targeted towards lesbians!" would immediately use them against the intended target and they fully know it's almost always never them that it's targeted towards.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i agree with this. beneath the superficial delusion they know what they're doing.

[–]HelloMomo 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well put

[–]usehername 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

He's been raised with an intense disgust for gay people all his life.

That's why he doesn't support gay marriage, despite legally (though not actually) being in one.

[–]grammaroo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

what i find so interesting is even his entire family and most people have no idea what he is. they genuinely think he's secretly always been a gay man. when he "came out", his entire family and wife thought he was coming out as gay because there was this big drama of "so you were NEVER attracted to me?" they thought he wasnt just coming out as gay but "turbo gay"..thats what almost everyone thinks of these people. even till this day, they have no idea he identifies as a lesbian. he's been asked multiple times if he's attracted to men and avoided it and heterosexuals just assumed it's because he is. they didnt understand he just didnt want to say he's a lesbian since everyone would spit out their drink that he's still a straight man doing this. im thinking his entire family, very slowly let it sink it that "holy christ...he's not gay, it's a fetish and he's straight"

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah there are a ton of articles speculating. I think most people just can't accept that they're watching him in the equivalent of a fursuit in public (but he actually went under the knife). It's too revolting so they just stay in denial.

[–]grixit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wait, last i heard, he did not actually have the final surgery.

[–]usehername 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I just meant all the other plastic surgery like his face and silicon implants. I bet he never cuts his dick and balls off. He's a piece of shit but I wouldn't wish it on him anyway.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Narcissism. I know I comment this a lot but it's the truth. If you look up how narcs think and why they behave the way they do you'll see that the worst ones are so monumentally self centered that they don't care about anything except what they want. They don't care about being consistent, or making sense, or extending others the same privileges they demand. Nothing. All they care about is what they want, and at the end of the day nothing will stop them from lying, manipulating, gaslighting, and moving goalposts when trying to get it.

What TRAs want is submission and compliance from everyone. That's why they demand we use female pronouns for Jenner but will unleash a torrent of slurs at any 'cis' person they disagree with with no regard for treating them respectfully. Narcs also divide everyone into 'good' and 'bad' categories because their worldview and emotional intelligence is stunted to a child's level. They may say they see Jenner as a 'bad' person, but he is still in the 'good' category for many TRAs just because he's trans. That's why they insist that everyone use his preferred pronouns. People who disagree with them on the other hand are in the 'bad' category, and they don't give a shit about respecting people they see as 'bad'.

[–]chandra 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They demand that even awful transwomen be referred to with their chosen pronouns because to do otherwise implies that all transwomen aren't real women, that your use of chosen pronouns for 'good' transwomen is just a courtesy rather than because you truly believe they are who they say they are. If a real woman did something evil it would never occur to you to start calling her 'him,' so to do so for evil transwomen implies that you're always carrying the thought that transwomen are really men and that their womanhood can be revoked. Which they are, but from a trans perspective I think this all makes sense.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

As many people on this Sub will attest, my knowledge of American politics is imperfect, but I don't personally see why anyone cares about Caitlyn Jenner running for governor of California. California is (with perhaps the exception of Portland) the Mecca of Woke, and since Jenner is standing for the Republicans, his chances of being elected seem very slim in this political climate. If Jenner had stood for the Democrats he'd be a sure hit because fIrsT WomAn GovErnOr. Arthnold's Civics 101 Question du jour: What does the governor do? How are they related to the state legislature?

Anyway, as to your question about what underpins this nonsense I'm sure there's certainly a great deal of complicated psychology going on involving in-groups and out-groups and 'Us versus Them'-style thinking et cetera, but I think it's mainly about control, particularly control of the narrative and control of who gets to say what.

Impelling someone to use certain pronouns is controlling the way that person speaks. No right-thinking (a dangerous concept but work with me here) person would support compelled speech and the ridiculous notion that people disregard the evidence of their senses in favour of some Woke catechism.

As someone on Ovarit (I think?) pointed out, these shaming tactics only work on people who already kind of respect the idea being put forth because they're afraid of having their 'good person' card taken away from them, since they're already neck-deep in the ideology and that's what their notion of being a 'good person' involves now. People like Ben Shapiro or Sarah Palin are never shamed for not having pronouns in their Twitter bios because people like Ben Shapiro or Sarah Palin would just laugh in the faces of these people and that would be the end of it.

It's something of a cliché now to compare Trans™ to a cult or a cluster B personality disorder brought to life but this is one of the areas in which that comparison can be particularly apposite. You cannot question the party line on anything and blind obedience must be maintained or the house of cards will come tumbling down. Black-and-white thinking is similarly par for the course: you're either with us, in which case you have to jump on the Vengabus of trans and toot the horn as loud as you can; or you're against us, in which case you're a suppressive person who must be destroyed.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Having read 'Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief', the woke crowd and this entire gender ideology movement seems grimly familiar. They make sure you cut off contact with suppressive persons (namely anyone who disagrees with any aspect of TQ, gender ideology and changing definitions of LGB), individuals (rather than the organisation) go after people who left the ideology/dissenters by doxxing and ruining their lives/public inage, and they surround you with people from the woke community so that you're only left with an echo chamber and you don't hear differing opinions.

And they say we're the cult.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Very insightful comment, the situation you outlined is certainly something I see in day-to-day life. Hyacinth Bucket liberalism.

What does the governor do? How are they related to the state legislature?

Governors are essentially mini-presidents. State governments are also divided into the three branches- Executive, Legislative, and Judicial (mostly! This is America, there are always exceptions.) The Governor leads the Executive Branch which is tasked with executing laws passed by the state legislature. This includes staffing state agencies, $pending all the money, and controlling the political direction of things like education and economic development.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Hyacinth Bucket liberalism.

The candlelit suppers are the talk of the town though.

[–]fuck_reddit[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Everything u/PatsyStone said is correct. I'd also add that Governors typically have more power relative to their state legislature than the President does relative to Congress. For example, governors have imposed lockdowns by their own prerogative. The President can't even think of doing that. Governors also typically have more authority over the minor details of your life, whereas the Federal government deals with more meta-issues like taxes, trade, international relations, and the military. The governor is more interested in actively maintaining order, actively encouraging specific industry, education, building infrastructure, etc.

[–]barnarnasis this tv show my friend? 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Arthnold's Civics 101 Question du jour: What does the governor do? How are they related to the state legislature?

Governors are to the state governments what the president is to the federal government, meaning they're in charge of the executive branch. Each state has individual laws regarding the powers and other things like term limits. Someone from California could give a better answer regarding his chances.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Excellent, thank you! Another piece of the American political jigsaw falls into place.

[–]barnarnasis this tv show my friend? 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

No problem! It helps to think of US states as borderless countries who all agreed to work together except for that one time.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

That's def how Texans think of it 😉

[–]barnarnasis this tv show my friend? 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Unfortunately, yes 😂 Though despite what the former governor, head of the state republican party, and just a shocking number of citizens believe, Texas can't actually leave and become it's own country

[–]fuck_reddit[S] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

You need to tell that to Texas lol. They won't ask permission to leave.

[–]usehername 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One cold winter nearly did them in

edit: For non-Americans, Texas lost power to the entire state during the big snowstorm this year because they have their own power grid separate from the rest of the U.S. since they have been threatening to secede for over 100 years. One small instrument froze and the entire grid went down.

[–]barnarnasis this tv show my friend? 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Technically it didn't go down but it came scary close and people lost power for several days.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm from the U.S., here are some details:

Recently, Democrat governor Gavin Newsom was elected governor of California. However, a petition to remove him from office got enough signatures that there is now going to be a recall election. In this new election, Newsom will be pitted against a Republican and the people will vote again.

This is what Newsom did that pissed these people off so much:

  1. Mandated masks
  2. Closed schools and businesses
  3. Paused executions
  4. Raised the car tax
  5. Homelessness crisis has not improved
  6. Went out to eat with lobbyists while telling Californians to stay home (rich dickweed)

However, California has had a fairly good response to COVID (relative to the rest of the U.S., which is to say it was shit). People are angry that it was so restrictive, but in reality, it was not nearly restrictive enough, and more restrictions could have saved a lot of lives and had the state open by now.

Honestly, if any Republican is going to win against Newsom, it's Caitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn has the support of Fox News, and is extremely conservative, but appeals to liberals because he's trans. The news has been very careful to only use very flattering photos of him where he almost looks like a woman, and has been barely using audio clips of his voice. I guess they want to paint him as the "respectable conservative transsexual". He's been careful not to say anything about specific policies that he'd implement because he knows absolutely nothing about the government. After what happened with Trump, I really think people are dumb enough to vote for Caitlyn. Caitlyn would likely open the state up 100% like Texas, which as a result has developed an antibody-resistant COVID strain. There hasn't been much research yet, but it's possible that vaccinated people could be affected.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for explaining the situation so clearly!

[–]censorshipment 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

TRAs are obviously homophobes... both straight homophobes and also LGB homophobes who are throwing their own people under the bus for "respectability".

I'm sure there are even folks here who would throw certain "transphobes" under the bus if they did something crazy/vile/foul... to distance themselves from the "bad apples". SMH hypocrites.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sure there are even folks here who would throw certain "transphobes" under the bus if they did something crazy/vile/foul... to distance themselves from the "bad apples". SMH hypocrites.

Without evidence for casting this aspersion among members of this group, it might be better not to generate such animosity. That's just a vague, cynical, unsubstantiated supposition, whereas we can see clearly what the people in your first paragraph are doing and that they are doing it.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Splitting and DARVO. Longer related comments from Vulvamort and ArthnoldManacatsaman are also on this post.