LesbianWhy do so many transbians want relationships with women who aren't attracted to them?

submitted by TheBitchinAccounting from self.LGBDropTheT

Full disclosure: I am a hetero woman (sorry if I'm intruding) who stumbled onto LGBDroptheT after one of my younger lesbian coworkers had a disastrous experience with a "trans fem enby." Basically this dude agressively pursued her even though she already had/has a girlfriend. At some point she also admitted that she wasn't attracted to him as well. All hell broke loose with her progressive high school & college age friends. Apparently she was a bigot for being transphobic AND for being unwilling to have a polyamorous relationship (what is it with poly being pushed so hard too?). Lost a lot of her friends.

Anyway, do these male "lesbians" have some sort of humiliation fetish? Do they get off on shaming, guilt-tripping, and forcing women into sex/relationships with them? Because I imagine a relationship with someone who's not attracted to you - & may even be repulsed by you - would be a mutually unsatisfactory & toxic relationship.

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[–]Tarlatan 61 insightful - 1 fun61 insightful - 0 fun62 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's pretty much for the same reason rapists want to have sex with women who don't want to have sex with them.

[–]TheBitchinAccounting[S] 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I kinda get rape (as disgusting & unethical as it is) being an exertion of power & control. But I simply can't get my head around these men who claim to want a loving uwu girl relationship try to bully women into an essentially abusive long-term relationship. I'm so sorry that lesbians & bi women are now regularly facing this.

[–]Tarlatan 44 insightful - 2 fun44 insightful - 1 fun45 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's still about domination. Vampire like, the men want to consume what's within the woman. They are, after all, entitled to it.

One goal is to be validated as a woman themselves. If a woman who wants only women wants them, then they are women. That's why they make the most noise about "gold star" lesbians, women who have never had sex with any man.

[–][deleted] 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Heterosexual women as well, in the case where a partner comes out as trans.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Heterosexual women as well, in the case where a partner comes out as trans.

Absolutely. Indeed, this is even more of a parallel than it may at first appear, since these heterosexual women are so often pressured by their now-trans husband/boyfriend to themselves "come out" as... lesbian.

And just in case anyone thinks this is merely for consistency's sake-- because if her partner's supposed to be a woman now, it just follows that she can't be straight anymore, right?-- the fact that bisexual women (who already identified as such) are likewise pressured to declare themselves lesbian really gives the game away. Both in the sense that these men MUST "have" a woman who's exclusively same-sex-attracted to feed their "I'm-a-LAY-DEE" fetish... and that they presume that women are whatever men say we are.

[–]reluctant_commenter 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, some of those "trans widow" stories sound horrific.

[–]theytookourjerbsXX only. 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah they're pretty sad stories.

[–][deleted] 47 insightful - 1 fun47 insightful - 0 fun48 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They don't think of lesbians as people. We're just the fulfillment of their fetish to them. They break out the rape threats really quickly too when something doesn't go their way. It's not about the woman they're after, it's all about them and no one else.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay 42 insightful - 2 fun42 insightful - 1 fun43 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lost a lot of her friends.

No, she lost a bunch of expendable backstabbers.

Anyway, do these male "lesbians" have some sort of humiliation fetish? Do they get off on shaming, guilt-tripping, and forcing women into sex/relationships with them? Because I imagine a relationship with someone who's not attracted to you - & may even be repulsed by you - would be a mutually unsatisfactory & toxic relationship.

No, they have a yuri fetish. They want to be cute anime girls who "scissor" other girls.

That's what hentai does to people, it's a degenerate farm.

[–]grammaroo 37 insightful - 2 fun37 insightful - 1 fun38 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Transbians KNOW theyre straight men who "feel" like women and bisexuals use them and laugh behind their backs. The ULTIMATE test and seal of approval is being certified by a homosexual. Gays and Lesbians have basically been murdered for 2000 years and tormented for it because theyre incapable of being attracted to and having sex with the opposite sex. Theyre obsessed with lesbians because if a lesbian has sex with you and she's incapable of being attracted to a man, then CLEARLY you're not a man. This wasnt just a one off encounter with your lesbian friend, they've been doing this to all lesbians and destroying their communities. When straight women who support them say, "TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN!", theyre crazy enough to believe it so they try to isolate, dehumanize and stigmatize lesbians by either having sex with them or forcing them to admit they dont see them as true women, which basically means theyre open targets for violence as bigots.

[–]loveSloaneSuperDuperBi 35 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 0 fun36 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it’s a combination of two things: one, they’re straight men (specifically “transbians” not all transwomen). They don’t want to date other transwomen because they know that transwomen are men even if they can’t acknowledge it. I think the reason they don’t seem to go after bisexuals or “pansexuals” (not that being bi would mean that someone is open to dating a transwoman) is because of reason number 2: validation. If they can get a lesbian to date them, that’s kind of maximum validation. As another poster said, they don’t care about how the women they’re going after feel, it’s all about them wanting sex/love/companionship and validation.

[–]barnarnasis this tv show my friend? 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a fetish.

[–]JulienMayfair 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do they get off on shaming, guilt-tripping, and forcing women into sex/relationships with them?

Pretty much. To them, if they can get sex from an authentic lesbian, that's the ultimate validation. It's a form of pathological narcissism where the whole point is to reinforce their fragile self-image. Other people are merely tools to accomplish that purpose.

On the other hand, if you challenge their self-image, they respond with rage.

It's very depressing that we spent 30 years trying to teach kids about consent, and now the focus on trans threatens to undermine all that.

[–]Socialjustus 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The same reason all the other incels do.

[–]reluctant_commenter 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not intruding, sidebar says LGB men and women and our allies :) feel free to post/comment.

I'm really sorry that happened to your friend, that sounds awful. Hope she is able to find support from other friends/family who care about her. I hate to generalize about people I don't know, but if your friends call you a bigot for saying you're not attracted to someone or for not wanting to date multiple people at once, they're horrible friends.

Anyway, do these male "lesbians" have some sort of humiliation fetish?

Yes, many of them do. Ever heard of the Subreddit User-Overlap website before? You can type in the name of any subreddit and it tells you: How many times likelier than the average redditor is a person who posts/comments on this sub to also post/comment on another sub? For example, r/crossdressing is a subreddit where many MtFs (transgender-identified males, such as your friend's "trans fem enby" stalker) hang out. If you type in "crossdressing" to the site, you'll see that people on r/crossdressing are 24 times likelier than average to post/comment on r/MtF... and they're also 130 times likelier to post/comment on r/sissies, which is a humiliation porn subreddit. So, yeah, many of these men who say they are "lesbians" have a humiliation fetish.

There is also the component of: "If I can get a lesbian to date me, then that means she's convinced I'm a woman; therefore, I must be a woman!" They try to date lesbians specifically, as opposed to say bisexual women, because they see it as a form of external validation.

[–]julesburm1891 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it’s two things that sometimes work independently of each other and are sometimes intertwined.

  1. Not seeing us as real humans, but as an object that fulfills their fantasy/fetish of being a lesbian. They aren’t seeing us as autonomous people with feelings, just as a prize that validates their identity. (It’s a somehow even creepier and more dehumanizing spin-off of the straight dudes that chase and harass lesbians because they fantasize about “turning” us.)

  2. Being able to both emotionally and physically manipulate and control women. Normally, you’d get drug through the streets and told what a creep you are for this. In the present climate, you get cheered on for being a rapey asshole and your victim gets blamed. For men who want to prey on women, this is a gold mine. (My money is on the non-binary make harassing your coworker falling in this camp. He doesn’t even have to pretend to be a woman to get carte blanche for all his little games and he knows it.)

[–]Dromedary 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I just can't get with "trans fem enby" describing someone who has a dick and is harrassing a lesbian. This shit makes my blood boil.

[–]TheBitchinAccounting[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

From what I understand he's basically just a guy who wears nail polish & sometimes eyeliner. Boom! Trans fem enby. Who knew a little bit of cosmetics could change your entire gender identity?

[–]MilkTea 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A lot of them are incels and they found a way to harass lesbians by using "trans" as a shield. And I'm not even using the word incel as a petty insult. Some actually do admit to it. Well, they claim they are no longer incels after transitioning, but we all know that's not true.

Edit: And yeah, I agree with all the people saying it's the "ultimate validation" for those creeps.

[–]reluctant_commenter 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yup. r/transmaxxing

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

<Basically this dude aggressively pursued her even though she already had/has a girlfriend> Some people can't take no for an answer. They think they can wear you down until you change your mind and don't see that behavior as abnormal. But that's only part of the problem, this is the rest:

<Do they get off on shaming, guilt-tripping, and forcing > While some probably do, the rest know they can get away with doing that and have no problem using those tools. And they have help from LGB and straight people who drank the gender kool-aid. Your coworker exposed herself as not being a member of the queer theory cult, I.E. sexuality = gender/identity attraction, and that monogamy is bad because "heteronomativity"

please let her know we are here, there's plenty to read even if we are a small group.

As a side note: <what is it with poly being pushed so hard too?> That's the Q influence, monogamy needs to be deconstructed because of heteronormativity and other "queer" relationships need to be celebrated, like poly.

[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it's been said in this thread, but my take is that it's a combination of 3 things:

  1. at the end of the day they are run of the mill misogynists who wish to emotionally and physically control women and use their female partners as affection and sex dispensers until there's nothing left of them. they are not capable of loving any woman because they fundamentally do not see women as autonomous people with their own thoughts, feelings and desires.

  2. it's a fetish, and they are looking to fulfill their fetish fantasies.

  3. sex and romantic attention from a lesbian is the ultimate validation of their fragile self-image, so they aggressively chase it accordingly.

[–]censorshipment 17 insightful - 5 fun17 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

https://mirandayardley.com/en/the-cotton-ceiling/

“The term “Cotton Ceiling” was originally coined by the intensely awesome Canadian trans-activist and porn star Drew DeVeaux, in which she referred (quite specifically) to the tendency within feminist and queer women’s spaces for trans women to be, while nominally accepted as women and supported in their pursuit for rights and equality, regarded and treated as essentially de-sexed, unfuckable, and sometimes a bit repulsive, with this becoming highly politicized in regards to its implications for things like what a lesbian sexuality really means, how much of sexuality is “orientation” and something we can’t be held accountable for and how much is mediated by our perceptions, how sexuality can reveal that biases and lack of respecting gender identity continue to exist on visceral levels despite being intellectually (or superficially) rejected, etc.

The “cotton” refers to underwear. The idea being here that no matter how much basic, nominal acceptance a trans woman can receive in feminist or queer or women’s spaces, we’re still always ultimately rejected when it comes to breaking the sexual barrier, and being accepted as women to such a full extent that we are accepted sexually as women.”

[–]SerpensInferna 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Besides the usual male rapey / domination issues going on - these are still heterosexual males, albeit deranged, mentally ill heterosexual males. And they still desire women, and lesbians are their ultimate validation.

There are a lot of men that either intentionally or through completely missed social cues do not understand when women aren't interested in them, and a lot that are also turned on by the idea of force and humiliation.

Here's where I think the divide is, in broad strokes. Women think they understand what men want, but they really don't. Women want safety and security and tenderness. Lots of women like to be lovingly dominated. Men want to fuck, men want to dominate and humiliate and own. Men don't need the emotional connection women crave. And men are still men, no matter what gender they identify as. A huge part of what I find so crazy about this gender bullshit is that transwomen still behave so much like men and they are totally blind to it.

As an example, it would infuriate and frustrate me to no end when I used to date guys, and would think of them lovingly enough to send them a heart emoji, and would get a dick emoji back.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Except that lots of tranbians want to be dominated. Being dominated sexually is validation of femininity. That what would make me into them if I were bisexual, the being more sexually submissive, unlike a normal man. Its true we crave emotional connection and not just physical one. Thats why lesbian relationship are known to be very quick to become serious

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're men, being aggressive and entitled is typical male behaviour. They want lesbians as a validation. Dating someone who is only attracted to women is how they validate themselves in the idea of being women. That's why they're so much into lesbians than bisexuals, who will more likely to date them. I mean, if I were bisexual, I would probably give a try too. Many of them are literal incels, who thought passing as trans would have increased the possibility to date. It surely increases the possibility of harrassing women without getting judged, and staying in women spaces. Look, as a normal man this dude would have been criticized for harrassing a lesbian, but as a trans, he has people supporting him as the victim. And then what kind of friends she had, who left her for this?

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These "male lesbians" have a power tripping and emotional manipulation fetish. They get off on the fact that they can force women to "see" them as "women" and call them woman/she/her.

It's a trend that has its roots in postmodernism deconstructing of boundaries and categories, essentially saying society determines how we "see" people as female/male, and not you know, millions of years of human sexual selection to be able to accurately detect sex at a glance.

They get off on the power to make women see and say something that is so obviously false. I think they get off on making people say and "believe" absurd things, probably as much as they get off on autogynephilia. Btw if you don't know what AGP is, look it up now.

Your coworker's situation is not isolated. This has been a malicious, homophobic trend since 2012. Read these links for more insight, and if you feel comfortable share them with your coworker too. It might help her see she's not alone:

https://truethingsiwishicouldsay.tumblr.com/post/180829383758/what-happened-to-my-sister

https://archive.fo/veaRX

[–]Rage-Xion 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Do trans people have genital preferences?

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so this brings up a good point, and the answer i've seen is that trans people are allowed to unproblematically have genital preferences because interaction with the same genitals as their own "can cause dysphoria". while t4t (trans4trans) is a thing among bisexual and homosexual trans people, heterosexual trans people always conveniently use the dysphoria excuse to exclusively pursue the opposite sex.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They don't get that women are people. Men who think women are lipstick and giggles also think that women are a thing that you gain access to.

Women who by design never have any competing men around... are attractive to a certain pathetic kind of man.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because they're straight men basically.

Why do men stalk women? Won't don't you really see women stalking men? (I don't mean girls obsessively crushing on male celebrities, I mean the creepy dangerous stalking). Why are most rapists men? Why are men more coercive when it comes to sex?

My guess is firstly, that men are bigger. So they can coerce women into having sex with them without being worried that they might get beat up in retaliation. Secondly, I think men are wired to be more aggressive and to want control, whilst women aren't as much. I wish there was data on this, this is just what I've noticed from hanging around family courts.

[–]SuperGayIsOkay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A male who identifies as trans wants a natal female lesbian as a partner because it's the ultimate form of validation for them. An actual lesbian acknowledging a heterosexual male as a valid partner for a lesbian is a form of validation of their identity, it's what they get off on.