LifestyleBreaking up w my gf over trans ideology..

submitted by hufflepuff-poet from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]plenty_water 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Hi. I have been in a similar situation as you before. I even posted about it on /r/truelesbians and /r/gendercritical when they existed. My post was entitled something very similar to yours, "How to deal with my girlfriend who has completely imbibed trans ideology?" I was surprised by the responses that I received, which were similar to the ones here in this thread. They said, "if you love her and you get along, why throw it away?" That response was quite a surprise to me. Even though all of us here are critical of the trans ideology and gender bullshit, it appears that many of us wouldn't allow it to interfere with our romantic relationships. Of course, I respect everyone's opinion here and they are entitled to it - but it is curious to me that everyone here is so vociferously against this ideology but would demure if it was supported by their significant other. Curious.

As for me, I dated a girl that I'd known for ten years for about 10 months about a year ago. She was deeply ingrained in the QuEeR lGbTqIaa2+ cult in my large metropolitan west coast city. Yes - i went into it knowing that she was indoctrinated, but I really tried to ignore it. However, it is something that I could not end up ignoring. This was because a lot of her friends identified as a gender special, and I was constantly having to interact with them. People here have differing approaches to this, but I do not want to hang out with people that force me to change my language in accordance to their ideology. Thus, I do not want to hang out with trans/queer people. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I just find it a fundamental violation of my autonomy to participate in someone's delusion. Not going to happen.

Anyways, my ex had never once had a critical thought about the movement until we started being romantic and I started sharing my feelings with her. At first, she was deeply disturbed and wouldn't hear me out, no matter how gently i explained to her my feelings. When we did discuss my stance on it, we had serious fights because she felt like i was "disrespectful" to trans people. And i'd always say, "how could the truth possibly be disrespectful? It is simply the truth."

I couldn't understand how she didn't follow my logic. To me, examining and arriving to a just conclusion on trans and gender issues follows a simple logical tree. And when someone rejects the conclusion that we have all arived to, it is because they are rejecting one of the truths along that tree. For instance - it is a truth that there are two sexes, male and female. That is a point along the tree, and a person may choose to accept or reject that piece of logic. So, my ex was unable to follow the logical tree. She was unable to understand the truth. And that was one of the elements that made me deeply unattracted to her, among other things as it relates to this issue.

As I mentioned above, she had a lot of queer friends. And another thing that started creeping me out was that she befriended a trans lesbian who did not pass in any capacity. I was already struggling using the pronouns of her female friends, but when she brought around the male lesbian I just...couldn't handle it.

I told her, "you're forcing me to change the way I perceive reality by brining [insert trans woman's name] over..." So yeah....

Anyways, your situation is different than mine, and perhaps your values are different than mine as well. I guess, I want you to ask yourself this: 1. do you feel like using her brother's (or sisters?) pronouns is a fundamental violation of your autonomy as a human on this planet, and is it something that you do not want to sacrifice? and 2. will you still find your girlfriend attractive despite that deeply unsettling feeling that you disagree on this topic?

I am curious to know the answers to these questions, too, if you have time to respond.

Unlike others, I do think that it's a completely justified reason to break up with someone over. I wouldn't date someone ever again who wasn't critical of gender. And I promise, there are attractive, sane, intelligent and gender critical lesbians out there... hmu...ha.. ;)

[–]HelloMomo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That response was quite a surprise to me. Even though all of us here are critical of the trans ideology and gender bullshit, it appears that many of us wouldn't allow it to interfere with our romantic relationships. Of course, I respect everyone's opinion here and they are entitled to it - but it is curious to me that everyone here is so vociferously against this ideology but would demure if it was supported by their significant other.

I think one way in which we on the forum vary quite a bit is how willing we are to play along with pronouns.

I know some people are completely unwilling to play along with the facade to any degree — you give an inch, they'll take a mile. And I get that mindset.

But the pronouns game is the one area where I will compromise a little. Maybe this is just practicality on my part: I'm a college student, and I need to be able to exist there. Getting tarred and feathered as a terf in all my liberal arts classes would be a logistical problem for me.

But the way I justify it is that, in other contexts where I disbelieve something, I don't need to mention how I disbelieve it every single time I name it. If I don't believe in someone's religion, I don't feel the need to say "your fake god", I can just say "your god". And in that context, I do think it'd be rude to do otherwise — like yeah, we get it, you don't believe that, you don't need to bring it up every other sentence.

The key difference between that and pronouns is that with pronouns, playing along is seen as a sort of tacit agreement or endorsement. But I'm mostly a non-confrontational person, so I'm do that anyways.

[–]plenty_water 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hear you. I went to a hyper-progressive liberal arts college in the PNW for my undergrad and masters. There would be No. Way. In. Hell. i'd ever "misgender" someone to their face or around people that I do not know. Otherwise, the repercussions would be actually quite serious. I was a graduate assistant at my university and I could have been fired, have lost funding for my research, or removed from the program. So yes, I do the same thing. but in private, around my friends and family who know how I feel - I do not use people's pronouns.

But that's the thing that aggravates me about it. It is that I am forced to do it to their face, otherwise face repercussion. And in theocratic countries it's quite similar - you must adhere to their dogma or face repercussion despite not sharing their personal conviction. It is the fact that someone else is imposing a standard upon me that I do not believe in that freaks me out.

Does that make sense?

[–]HelloMomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is that I am forced to do it to their face, otherwise face repercussion.

I hear you. If someone is saying "your fake god" in a context where they have religious freedom, that comes across like self-righteous atheist being a dick on purpose. If you change the context to a theocratic country where a person could face serious repercussions for that, suddenly that person seems like a brave rebel.

The difference I guess is "I'm deliberately doing this to provoke you, safe in the knowledge that you can't do anything about it - ha!" vs "I am risking a lot by saying this, but I'm doing it anyways because I believe this issue is important."