all 13 comments

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What is with the terrible headlines on this story by the Guardian, BBC, etc.? Again they’re trying to misrepresent Russia’s role in this and deemphasize Chechnya when the human rights violations against gay men are being committed by a Chechnyan Muslim regime not Putin’s regime in Moscow (as much as I hate Putin). They make it sound like Moscow sent the men back to Chechnya when it appears Chechnya abducted them. And shouldn't the main story be the torture inflicted on them by the Chechnyan government when they arrived in Chechnya? I also note that one of the gay men is actually a 17-year-old boy.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I also note that one of the gay men is actually a 17-year-old boy.

Yeah I was kind of confused by that as well. Different age cutoffs for adults...?

They make it sound like Moscow sent the men back to Chechnya when it appears Chechnya abducted them.

Yeah exactly. I was confused about the mismatch between title and article so I left it as is. That makes more sense, thanks for pointing it out. Just anti-Russia bias, I guess?

And shouldn't the main story be the torture inflicted on them by the Chechnyan government when they arrived in Chechnya?

Yeah! I guess I'm just really confused. This article seems to have gotten quite a lot of circulation in the US, and I wanted to share to see if anyone else might know better what is going on.

edit: To be fair, I think that article writers in journalism don't get to choose their own headlines, usually.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah exactly. I was confused about the mismatch between title and article so I left it as is. That makes more sense, thanks for pointing it out. Just anti-Russia bias, I guess?

Western liberal media has made it clear that they will only publish news about homophobia to the extent it bolsters another more important narrative. They are silent on homophobia in Iran and about Muslim homophobia generally. They want to paint homophobia as the sole province of conservative Christians. So yes, this story is only being published due to the anti-Russian angle they are pushing. I won’t defend Putin’s regime, but this is not part of that.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying, I appreciate that. Did not realize that the neglect of LGB issues went beyond just the trans lobby in such a specific pattern.

[–]ukrdude10 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The current Chechnyan government is fully backed and funded by Putin's criminal regime, that's how they were able to kidnap these boys near Moscow. They are violating laws of the Russian Federation as well as international human rights, and the federal government is doing absolutely nothing to stop it. Torture and illegal detention are commonplace in Russia, gay activism is illegal, our community is abused all the time, and the police ignores it.

You can't just be naive when dealing with Putin, his government is one of the most evil and inhuman regimes in recent history.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Dude, trust me. I am not naive when dealing with Putin nor do I excuse the homophobia of his regime. My entire point is that the only reason this story is getting press is in a way that separates it from the Muslim regime committing the acts of torture and by exclusively emphasizing the connections to Moscow. This is part of a pattern of western liberal press and LGBT orgs ignoring or de-emphasizing Islamic homophobia and only reporting on homophobia that can be used to prop up another issue.

Btw are you from the Russian Federation or Ukraine?

[–]ukrdude10 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yeah I totally agree that western media ignores the brutality of Islamic regimes. Muslims openly call for our deaths online, nobody pays much attention. Weirdly, in the 90s and early 2000s, Russia was neutral towards homosexuals, there were gay themes in music like Tatu, but recently they switched to full on hatred, and I still dont' know why.

I'm from Ukraine but currently live abroad. Ukrainian LGBs aren't that safe either, though government is friendlier, there are are constant violent threats from nationalist far-right groups.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Glad to see they're still posting this unsourced fake news trash.

Reminder: The only evidence that Chechnya "terrorizes" gay people comes from the claims of one "LGBT organization." Do you really think they're trustworthy?

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ramzan Kadyrov literally claims gay people don't exist in Chechnya. It's the same argument Iran makes whenever someone asks them about gays being persecuted.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's quite a jump! Obviously denying homosexuality exists means you are LITCHERALLY KILLING THEM, and aren't just doing it out of bizarre pride and stupidity.

When 14 year old me said I was straight, obviously I REALLY meant I was out murdering 50000 people. /s /obviousjoke /whatever

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My comment is just pointing out how he doesn't exist in reality on any topic surrounding gays so nothing he says can possibly be believed. The US created the terrorism boogie man now every government looking to get away with some agregeous shit just calls X group "terrorists" and then continue on.

Putin himself seems to have criticized Chechnya so it seems like this would be a bit more than fake news. Religious extremists are always going to be at the bottom of my trust totem pole.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not saying he should be believed. But he's not even the source, this is irrelevant to what the Chechyna leaders say.

I'm saying I have searched far and wide online for proof, in both English and Russian, and come up with NOTHING credible. There is not even an approximate location to where these "death camps" in Chechnya are. There is no photo of them, no description. I've talked to people who have lived in the area or visited and they have said that there isn't anything that they have seen. The one person who did an interview claiming to be a "survivor" of Russian "homophobic violence" had a perfect American accent despite claiming to only have lived in America and learned English for 6 months. And every SINGLE post, news article, etc about the "russian/Chechnya gay killings" links back to THE SAME LGBT ORGANIZATION - "Russian LGBT network." Which is also suspiciously Westernized.

I don't trust LGBT organizations anyway, I think they're all full of shit, but I especially don't trust that one. "Witnesses told our organization that they had a friend of a friend see these camps" is not proof. Until I see concrete evidence, then I have no reason to believe it's anything but purely a fabrication, and I wish people would stop posting about it as if it were true.

ESPECIALLY on this sub of all places. Why is it that people can criticize trans ideology and left-wingers for not fact checking, and spreading fake nonsense, but seem to do the exact same thing when fake nonsense works in their favor?

I could make a MS paint drawing of stickmen shooting eachother, post it on Reddit/Twitter/etc claiming it's "real footage of brave LGBs being brutally murdered in Estonia" and I bet that within a week someone would post on this sub about how Estonians were evil gay-killing monsters and "teh LGBs need to rise up".

Please, people, for the love of god, fact check. Or get someone else (like me) to fact check, but also don't complain when we say "Hey I searched for many hours in two languages and there's nothing."