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[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Can you also clear up some stuff for me in regards to radical feminism? I made a comment to Repitilian in agreement to my experience to radical feminism--I have not had good experience with them in particular.

((I'll reply to your other insightful comment a bit later, it is getting a little late here where I live.))

Originally, I was very interested in feminism, particularly radical feminism, seeing as they are gender critical (didn't realize that gender critical is actually its own branch of feminism and not necessarily a descriptive adjective, if that makes sense?)

Anyways, I read up on many things and can agree with most topics but...

After awhile, I see many negative comments about "all men are terrible" and to not have kids because there is a potential to "raise an oppressor" and we already have "too many oppressors in the world" and how all men are nasty predators. It bums me out to read things like that considering I have a son...And originally wanted to raise him with some feminist ideals.

Also, I feel radical feminism is for people who aren't brown/minorities(which is something I am)...I've seen some rather...interesting comments to say the least. It makes me uncomfortable in general when race/ethnicity is involved. And I know that being brown/minority doesn't mean we can't be racist-we can too! I just hate the oppressive olympics games some people play instead of helping each other and looking at the real issues to fix.

Lastly, I am a GNC women, but...I do like feminine women and I don't mind if she wears makeup, high heels, etc if it makes her happy---would that make me part of the problem in the eyes of radical feminism?

Anyhow...

I guess my questions are:

  • What are radical feminists general view on men? Can men be considered radical feminists?

  • What are important issues that radical feminism tackles?

  • How do radical feminists confront libfems, anti-feminists, and others?

  • What are radfems thoughts on women who shave, wear makeup, dye hair, wear heels, etc? Is it possible for women to do those things out of liking it or is it considered patriarchal?

    • Also, once women receive complete liberation, would doing those things mentioned prior be seen as a choice the woman makes or is it still patriarchial in a sense? (sorry if I did not word question right---basically, I am curious why men get a pass on wearing makeup,heels, etc but women--not really).

If I have more questions, I will edit post or make another comment. It is getting rather late here. Once again, I really appreciate your responses, /u/GoValidateYourself. You're very level-headed.

Edit: format

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm sorry to hear you also had bad experiences with them. Yeah some are very hardline, and that pushes a lot of people away. Keep in mind a lot of the women who go hardline radical feminism have been sexually assaulted or abused by men in some way. That is usually what's behind their fear and hatred of men (which is logical; an experience that extreme changes people's lives in horrible ways). Not saying their attitude is correct, just giving it some context. Even though some radfems hate men, you almost never see radfems advocating for the murder or harm to men, like you see in groups of men who hate women. The extreme end of radical feminism is separatism, which is buying land and setting up male-free villages and towns, and sending their male children away from the town when they turn 18. Which is a fucked up, but they aren't committing mass-killings of men, or supporting it, they are removing themselves from society. Compare that extreme ideal to someone like Elliot Rodger, and all the men who supported him. Those men are basically the horse-shoe counterpart to the extreme radfem types; the only difference is they (the male version) is extremely fucking violent to women. If they genuinely "went their own way" (separatism), and set up their own towns and villages for only men, slept with only other men for political reasons (LOL), they wouldn't be considered a public danger. But I'm digressing.

For your questions: I am a racial minority and naturally tomboyish/gnc, and know of other gendercritical feminists who are too. I think that's a stereotype that it's all privileged white women clutching their pearls. There are racial minority women, de-transitioned women, and women with disabilities who consider themselves gendercritical feminists.

I ranted above (LOL) that some extreme radfems hate men, I think that is true. Not all do though, and some just want safety and freedom of women from violence. I don't personally care what people call themselves, or if a man wants to call himself a radfem. But I can't see any wanting to. There are some that consider themselves "Radfem allies" which I think is reasonable. You can ally with a group without necessarily being part of it. But it doesn't matter. The policy and societal changes are what matter imo.

Important issues include: ending domestic violence, ending marital rape (achieved in U.S.), single sex women's shelters, bathrooms, and prisons, ending FGM, ending acid attacks, ending female infanticide, access to legal, safe abortion at all terms, ending restrictive/harmful female dress codes (ex. requiring high heels and makeup at work). This is not an exhaustive list, just some issues that come to mind.

I don't know anything about confronting libfems or anti-feminists. I just usually try to talk to people and change their mind. If I can't do that, I aim to impart some perspective to help them understand the "other side". Libfems, when they hear the argument, almost always turn LOL. Antifeminists, not so much, but they see that I'm not a screeching harpy that wants to lock them in cages and steal their sperm. Radfem issues are quite reasonable when you get down to details, but the reputation precedes the movement.

I don't care if women shave or dye their hair. I shave my underarms to reduce BO, and shave during my period for personal hygiene preferences. I don't shave my legs b/c it is January. I've been called a "brainwashed libfem" by some hardcore radfem who was probably a teenager online, but I don't give a fuck. I believe mandated heels, skirts, makeup, should be eliminated. Heels wreck your spine and feet if you wear them too often, and makeup is full of carcinogens. Neither of those things should be required in a workplace. Skirts vs pants should be personal option, and it should be normal for women to choose pants and men skirts if they feel like it. Neither should be seen as "unprofessional".

I don't think any personal clothes choices are inherently patriarchal, I just don't want them mandated. Feminism has also gained amazing progress in this area. My mother and grandmother had to wear skirts to school, even in -15 winters. They walked too. They wore 2 layers of tights, underneath pants, underneath the skirts, and removed the pants when they got to school. I never had to do this, and neither did my sisters. That was b/c of feminists in their generation!

Also no prob, I am happy to give some personal perspective where it can be helpful!

[–]censorshipment 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I most definitely want men, particularly heterosexual/female-partnered white men, to suffer/struggle in life. I don't understand why women don't want men to go through what women have gone through... why women want everyone to be okay, healthy, and happy after thousands of years of misogyny. Why aren't women vengeful?

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Also, I feel radical feminism is for people who aren't brown/minorities(which is something I am)...I've seen some rather...interesting comments to say the least.

Piggybacking off of this-- some are remarkably hostile towards and dismissive of people with mental illness, as well. Or even LGB people.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I noticed they're not particularly nice to femme lesbians or doe bisexual women(both of which I'm attracted too--- I'd be considered GNC or a tomcat bisexual). Saw a thread recently about makeup and people talking crap about it, one femme lesbian talked about liking it and not doing it for the male gaze and people argued about that... They're also rather rude about gay/bisexual men due to them being, well...men.