DiscussionThe definition of homophobia?

submitted by reluctant_commenter from self.LGBDropTheT

I have generally considered "homophobia" to mean bigotry predicated on same-sex attraction. Trans rights activists, of course, often seek to re-define it as "bigotry directed towards LGBTQ+ individuals" or something the like, and reduce it to just a synonym for "transphobia".

What would you define "homophobia" as? I was wondering because LGB Alliance made this comment about homophobia suggesting that it is bigotry "directed towards gay men and lesbians," and I guess I was surprised they didn't mention bisexuals because, y'know, the B is in their name, lol.

Is "homophobia" discrimination towards people who are same-sex-attracted? Towards people on the basis of same-sex-attracted acts? Towards gay men/lesbians only, and biphobia is for bisexuals? (I always thought of biphobia as just being a more specific label for the particular forms of discrimination that bisexuals face, and homophobia applies to them as well, but what do I know.)

I would just google this normally, but like half the definitions are focused on transphobia, so I figured I would see what people here thought.

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[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 23 insightful - 6 fun23 insightful - 5 fun24 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

Logically homophobia is about same-sex attraction. Bisexual person is not hated with homophobia, when they are in heterosexual relationship, but they would be hated with homophobia if they will be on homosexual relationship. While there are cases when bisexual people are hated for being bisexual, which is more rare, and it is called biphobia.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

While there are cases when bisexual people are hated for being bisexual, which is more rare, and it is called biphobia.

I wouldn't say that biphobia is rarer; more that, because it tends to operate in a rather different way than homophobia, it's often less noticeable.

Biphobia is rooted in the notion that bisexuality doesn't really exist: that it's not actually a sexual orientation at all. Which causes bisexuals to be largely ignored/invisible (since, hey, we don't exist!), or-- when we do register-- treated dismissively (as defective straight/gay people, basically: phonies, weaklings, traitors, degenerates, etc.).

Homosexuality, by contrast, is generally perceived as a sexual orientation; unfortunately, in all too many people's eyes, it's a BAD one. So while LG people have the benefit of being seen as actually existing, this also means that they're targeted for discrimination and persecution in a way bisexuals typically are not, at least as bisexuals (in order to be targeted, you really must exist first).

Another way biphobia differs from homophobia is that it doesn't just come from heterosexuals; there's quite a bit of it among gay people, too. So (unlike the LG) we can't find refuge from it in LGB spaces.

The other main distinction is that (again, unlike gay people) we're often expected to be sexually-available to EVERYBODY. Cuz we aren't a sexual orientation, you know; we're just attracted to all and sundry, indifferent to people's sex, or mega-slutty. This also leads to the sense that, since we are attracted to the opposite sex, there's "no excuse" for us acting on our same-sex attraction; after all, we could refrain without having to be celibate, so why don't we? Or, in other words, while gay people "can't help it", bisexuals can... and so we SHOULD (at least according to those with a horror of homoeroticism).

Which isn't to say that we "have it worse" or anything. Just that biphobia has its own special ways of being shitty.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This also leads to the sense that, since we are attracted to the opposite sex, there's "no excuse" for us acting on our same-sex attraction; after all, we could refrain without having to be celibate, so why don't we? Or, in other words, while gay people "can't help it", bisexuals can... and so we SHOULD (at least according to those with a horror of homoeroticism).

Wow, I didn't even think of that one.

That all makes sense to me!

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 18 insightful - 12 fun18 insightful - 11 fun19 insightful - 12 fun -  (3 children)

Homophobia - hatred or distrust of people who are homosexual or who are in same-sex relationships.

Biphobia - hatred or distrust of people who are bisexual.

Heterophobia - hatred or distrust of people who are heterosexual or who are in opposite-sex relationships.

Transphobia - common sense.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 8 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

LOL

You're terrible Muriel.

[–]Eurowoman24 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

ha! you'd fit in well in France

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Better learn french so. 🤣🤣🤣

[–]censorshipment 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Homophobia includes bigotry against gnc folks (effeminate males, masculine females, androgynous males and females) who "look gay" which is likely where the "transphobia" connection to homophobia comes from since TRAs believe we gnc folks are part of the trans/nonbinary population.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think homophobia is discrimination based on same sex attraction. There are (at least theoretical) cases where someone would discriminate against homosexual and not bisexuals, but for the most part, homophobia is directed at all people with same sex attraction, regardless of whether that same sex attraction is exclusive or not. Bisexuals may be better suited to hide from homophobia like that by only acting on their attraction to the opposite sex, but avoiding discrimination by hiding facts isn't the same as not being the target of such discrimination.

To be honest, homophobes are too stupid to tell the difference. We're all just f@gs in their eyes, regardless of whether we're gay, bi, lesbian, or any other quality of who specifically we're attracted to and what kind of relationship we want. It may be argued that such people would simply be both homophobic and biphobic, but since the bigotry is based on the presence of same sex attraction, I think it should be all one thing: discrimination against (exclusive or non) same sex attracted people

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"Homophobia" - irrational fear or extreme hatred of homosexuality.

Anything else, including but not limited to:

  • Not supporting gay marriage (for any reason)

  • Refusing to cater to homosexuals in a private business or service (regardless of whether you think it's mean, I believe private businesses should be able to say no to whatever they want, if they're not comfortable with making gay wedding cakes or whatever, I don't think forcing them or punishing them is right)

  • Voicing distaste or disagreement with "pride" or "sex positivity"

  • Refusing to personally identify with, or support, the LGB(T+) "community", whether those reasons are personal or political

  • Not donating to homosexual or wider LGBT charities (most of them, if not all of them, are scams anyway)

  • Refusing to participate or offer one's services/business at a Pride or LGBT event

  • A homosexual not his/her their own sexuality.

  • A homosexual wanting to change his/her sexuality.

  • A homosexual choosing not to date the same sex

  • A homosexual experimenting with the opposite sex, for whatever reason that may be

  • A bisexual woman calling herself a "lesbian" or a bisexual man calling himself "gay"

  • Simply identifying as transgender (Cringy? Yes. Idiotic? Yes. Homophobic? No.)

  • Voicing distaste or disagreement with "gay culture" or homosexual stereotypes

  • Turning homosexual men/women down (Yes. I've been called "homophobic" for refusing to sleep with men who are interested in me.)

Is not "homophobia".

The word "homophobia" gets so misused, so that's why some people like me say things like "I don't believe in homophobia" because 9 times out of 10 the word is used to describe something that is NOT hatred or fear, but is literally just personal disagreement or something that a person doesn't like.

It's like if I were to call married gay men "homophobic" because I hate the idea of marriage and being "owned" by a man. Unless someone is literally hateful towards homosexuals without any logical reason (I don't believe that, say, people who have been abused by the same sex who may recoil from homosexuality count as "Homophobes" the same way that women who "hate" men due to abuse are not "misandrists") or is literally afraid of them they are not "homophobic." Having the wrong opinion that you personally don't like is not "Homophobia" and a homosexual not acting the way you, or the mainstream LGBT wants to act, is not "internalized homophobia."

For the record I don't think "internalized homophobia" is real, I think it's just a silencing tactic used against homosexual people who go against the status quo, and disagree with trans/queer or what is considered the popular opinion.

[–]HelloMomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would distinguish 3 broadly different types. But they're then categorized under only 2 different names:

  1. Homoerotism is bad, unnatural. Don't do the homo sex.
  2. Why aren't you doing the hetero sex? You should. You have a duty to get married.
  3. Bisexuals are untrustworthy sex fiends. They will cheat on you. Bi men gave straight women AIDS, and this is isn't just a fluke of biology, but because they are immoral!

The third one is pretty clearly about bisexuals as an orientation. And the second one is less clear, but still basically about homosexuals as an orientation.

But the first one? It's about homoeroticism, which both homosexuals and bisexuals do. The objection is conceptually the same, whether it's 2 homosexuals, 2 bisexuals, or one of each.

(Also worth pointing out that the whole model of sexual orientation is a pretty modern concept. In this place and time, sexual orientation is a Thing, and people are sometimes dicks specifically because someone is homosexual or bisexual. For example: the TRA attack on lesbians boundaries, and treatment of bi women as a communal sexual recourse — these are both specifically based on orientation. But it is worth keeping in mind that this is not the only model, and that in many places and times, there was just behavior, and this wouldn't be relevant.)

This is one of multiple reasons I think this "phobia" vocabulary isn't particularly helpful. Likewise, old school homophobia is rooted in taboo and traditionalism, whereas woke homophobia is rooted in entitlement. The word "homophobia" groups a bunch of only roughly related concepts, and acts as if they're one and the same. Which, y'know, you can do. But I don't find it the most useful way to describe things and convey meaning.

[–]LesbianInExile 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think some of the comments here about homophobia and biphobia are more applicable to men than women and that, in some ways, it is the opposite for women. Yes, bi men are assumed to be really gay and male bisexuality isn't viewed by many people as being real - but, with women, we are assumed to be sexually fluid or at least a bit bi - A woman leaving an opposite sex marriage for a woman is assumed to be bi, a man leaving his wife for a man is assumed to be gay. Even if you have only ever dated the same sex (as I have), there is still this idea that women are sexually fluid and that you are either lying or not being open-minded - not helped by some bi women identifying as lesbians - possibly because they don't believe women can be exclusively same sex attracted so just think it's about choosing to date a woman?

I also think there are some stereotypes about and dislike of lesbians which are lesbian specific - some straight woman are okay with bi women or a woman who always dated men "but just happened to fall in love with a woman" but have a lot of negative perceptions about lesbians. I think bi women face stereotypes and negative perceptions too but they are different.

[–]mvmlego 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Due to its suffix "phobia", I think the most linguistically sensible definition of "homophobia" is "fear of people who are sexually attracted to the same sex". Under this definition, though, the word is pretty much useless, since pretty much nobody is actually afraid of homosexuals or bisexuals. The word would gain some utility if it also included hatred or disgust toward LGB people, but I don't really see a linguistic justification for doing that.

If we're going to be sticklers about the "sexual" in "homosexual"/"bisexual"/"sexual orientation" referring to sex and not gender, then we should probably apply that sort of standard consistently.