The Utopian tomorrow we all dream off

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[–][deleted] 58 insightful - 1 fun58 insightful - 0 fun59 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Slight tangent, but subreddits like /r/lgbt and posts like these are a big part of why I personally want to "drop the T". Just reading through the replies to that post, and all the rest of the posts there, I don't know these people at all. I cannot relate to any of the experiences I read. I cannot keep up that false pretense of positivity constantly. I cannot fathom calling myself a "they/them" or "genderfluid". I don't want to represent them, and I don't want them to represent me.

[–][deleted] 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't want to represent them, and I don't want them to represent me.

And if you dare ask for representation that doesn't include the innate homophobia of the trans movement, you're a literal bigot. Everything must be trans including or trans centered, or else it deserves to be razed to the ground and salted.

[–]hetisachoice 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's why they want to make anything with positive depictions of gay men of color hard to see, like any of Franklyn Seales' episodes of Silver Spoons. Only the ones before he joined the cast are on DVD or streaming.

[–]winterwillow 39 insightful - 6 fun39 insightful - 5 fun40 insightful - 6 fun -  (28 children)

I read an article on Pink news (sorry!) about the girl, edit: Summer Taylor, who was killed at a protest in Seattle last year. She and her injured friend were both nonbinary using they/them pronouns, so the article where the friend was interviewed was virtually unreadable, since it was impossible to know whether the they was singular or plural, referring to Taylor, the friend or them both. "They went with them, and then they went by themselves" or something like it. They/them pronouns don't work if everyone start using them.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 35 insightful - 5 fun35 insightful - 4 fun36 insightful - 5 fun -  (16 children)

This is a perfect example why this neo-pronoun fad is moronic. Language should be becoming more precise and descriptive, not more obfuscating. And everyone who uses these pronouns knows it's happening but due to being under a mass peer pressure spell is still pretending to one another that the Emperor is not buck naked.

[–]8bitgay 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

It is also an example of bad writing. Even if you agree with neopronouns, at this point you should just use their names. Yeah, we avoid using names all the time so it doesn't become repetitive, but you already made it repetitive by using 8 "they" in one sentence anyway.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

There's a lot of genderspecial people who also either insist on never using capital letters at all, or who insist on capitalizing the first letter of every single word in a sentence.

Eschewing the established rules of a language that exist in large part for legibility to make yourself feel special is incredibly irritating.

[–]just_lesbian_things 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

They're almost always Anglophones too. I spent a lot of time and money learning English. So funny that when I make a grammar error or mispronounce something, I'm "wrong" while when these guys do it, they are evolving English or whatever. I have friends who have had to change their careers simply because their English isn't good enough. Why aren't these genderspecials cancelling TOEFL exams?

[–]8bitgay 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

This is a point I constantly think about. Homosexual is a word that has a local translation in many languages, if not all. There's always a term for people who like the same sex. But not queer - we are all using the English word for that. If the identity of queer is so genuine, you'd imagine people in other countries would have come up with a name for it before the American word got popular recently. Honestly I only know that queer is used as a slur because of what gay Americans say, never in my life anyone ever used queer as a slur - because it's a niche word that people only started using it a couple years ago.

Maybe we should outwoke them and starting claiming that queer is an expression of American imperialism.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's so, so tiring having to deal with their constant narcissism that seems to infect and warp every single interaction.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Omg that is a really spot on point about TOEFL. I never thought of that angle!

[–]LeaveAmsgAfterBeep 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

There’s a page for a now deceased lesbian artist which referred to her and one of her girlfriends living together in a sentence as “they.” Because she was gender nonconforming, some “good samaritan” came along and assumed this GNC lesbian was nonbinary/they/them and changed the pronouns in the article so its now unreadable to know when its referring to her and one of her multiple named girlfriends in the page or her alone.

I also checked every thesis paper on her I could find, every account available (there’s not a whole lot) besides one masculine nickname and how she dressed there’s nothing to account that she was “nonbinary” 60-80 years before the concept was invented. Whoever did it had less knowledge on this artist than I do, and yet they felt the need to change all the pronouns on her wikipedia page because they saw a “they” referring to a lesbian couple. When we talk about them going after specifically GNC lesbians with added energy (sometimes) aside from the cotton and boxer ceiling disasters, this is part of what we mean. GNC and LGB people can’t just exist, even dead, without being transed without our consent.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's so disrespectful to take liberties like that with someone's legacy. I'll bet they never even considered how she would have wanted to be remembered, just how doing this would nicely buff up the 'Trans and non-binary people are everywhere in history' fantasy.

[–]LeaveAmsgAfterBeep 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean in this case I think the person who jumped to “fix the article” was also just dumb as nails, because at the time it was changed it was maybe 5 paragraphs long, so the fact they couldn’t even pay attention for that long and changed the pronouns not realizing she was a lesbian and it was referring to her female partner and her is just. Idk typical of them?

[–]winterwillow 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is interesting, do you mind sharing the artist's name? I saw the lawyer/activist Pauli Murray being transed on an insta post, but her Wikipedia still uses female pronouns. I don't think the argument to trans historical gnc people stands, that they just 'lacked the language'. Murray saw herself as 'the man of the relationship' and a 'sexual invert' in the 30'-40's, who's to say she would have been a trans man today, she might have been a butch lesbian in the 90's. It's not for the trans movement to decide, in order to create a 'We were always here' narrative.

[–]LeaveAmsgAfterBeep 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hannah Gluckstein, aka Gluck

To my knowledge at least, she never identified as male but her and many lesbians and modern women in the parisian Natalie Barney circle at the time crossdressed and wore masculine styled clothing and enjoyed that it was a bit out there.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

It's infuriating as a non native English speaker. English is bullshit enough. But there are no neutral pronouns in my language and hell, even first person writing is gendered. I literally cannot tell whether "they" is singular or plural unless it is EXTREMELY CLEAR about the context, but I've made serious fuckups in the past because I assumed "they" was talking about a group when someone was just using it for me as singular, so... I ended up getting other people involved with something that I then got yelled at because I was supposed to do it alone, but I didn't know because they referred to me as "they" in the context of being around others.

Also, it's doubly shitty how I keep getting called "they" despite never, NEVER being coy about being male. Yes I look like a freak in real life and have "girly" interests that show online, yes I consider myself an outlier, no that doesn't mean you get to decide that I'm "nonbinary" and refer to me with confusing terms that my dumb bilingual brain can't keep up with.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so sorry. How rude it is for people to just assume you're nonbinary. Based on what? Stereotypes.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I do wish English had a proper singular gender neutral pronoun simply so that we can end ambiguity or confusion. If someone finds a skeleton and has yet to be able to identify the most likely sex, this person would be unable to say with confidence he or she, but unless wanting to refer to the skeleton as an it, would be forced to treat the deceased person as either an object, a guessed sex, or plural. There is no regular ke or pe or anythign like that to simply refer to a single human of unknown or undeclared sex. Unfortunately, we can't make useful gender neutral pronouns without people jumping on board to act like their gender is defined by that pronoun and making everything complicated again.

[–]slushpilot 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

single human of unknown or undeclared sex

That is precisely what "they" as an indefinite singular pronoun is meant for. The problem only arises when trying to use it for a definitely known person, and pretending like you don't know who they are. (This usage of they is exactly as intended.)

Imagine showing up at a hotel desk and saying: "I'm here with my wife and my son. They would like a separate room."

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Your example makes absolutely perfect sense because the group referenced by "they" actually is a plural. Wife and son are two different people, so to refer to both of them makes perfect sense to use they. But when a single person uses it as their only pronoun, problems happen

[–]just_lesbian_things 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I thought the example was referring to the son as a they, since we're talking about referring to definitively known people as ambiguous they.

[–]slushpilot 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Ahh! But the wife does not sleep with the son... that would be weird! I meant the son uses special pronouns and would like their own room all to themself!

[–]8bitgay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do wish English had a proper singular gender neutral pronoun simply so that we can end ambiguity or confusion.

It

Yeah, it's not usually used for people except toddlers, but if you're gonna change the usage of words anyway, what's the issue?

[–]mvmlego 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Out of curiosity, do you think that English should have some sort of standard singular, gender-neutral pronoun? I think it would benefit from one, but I see no way of building a consensus around any particular option for a new pronoun, which is why I think using "they" might be the best option, despite the ambiguities that it can cause.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 16 insightful - 12 fun16 insightful - 11 fun17 insightful - 12 fun -  (1 child)

THEY'RE BREAKING LOCKDOWN RULES REEEEEEEE

[–]8bitgay 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This but unironically. I've barely left my house for a year. I've seen many gay men being shunned for breaking lockdown. And while I agree that what they did is bad, it is clear that people are abusing it to be homophobic. They make it clear that they're shunning gay men, not just their actions.

Yet any woke event or woke people breaking lockdown gets a pass.

The good thing is that from now on when I see anti-LGB people I can outwoke them by remembering all those times they broke lockdown, while me, the gay guy, was at home.

[–]Lessom 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As if that really happened. Anything for some internet points.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, no. I’d be practicing how to avoid this person.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

is there any reason the woke give as to why lgb need to fight against gender? Is it just to be an ally to the tq?

[–]Rosefield 9 insightful - 8 fun9 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

And then everyone clapped

And the name of the school kid was Albert Einstein.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

They're all girls aren't they

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh fuck off Rebecca, he did not say that.

[–]oyasuminasai50 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

God I can't wait for the they/them fad to die out.

[–]ChodeSandwichtender and moist 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

He can tweet whatever he wants, children and teens are still pretty fucking stupid and their support doesn't mean anything to me. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Everyone gets one or two "from the mouths of babes" moments but each one is countered by twenty other minutes of eating crayons, bullying, and other poor choices that pop into our heads on sleepless nights.