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[–][deleted]  (29 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Nohope 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

    I did not grow up in a supportive environment at all. I am in a muslim country, and in every muslim country saying one is gay out loud can not only send them to prison but also give them at least 100 lashes. Copy-pasting what I said to the OP here: Please stop acting like just because you were told in a catholic household that being gay is a "sin", and you could be thrown out of your house, you get to act like that's the toughest thing you could have gone through.

    I believe that is a moral failing. Self-hatred is all you can teach the young gay people, so you are not qualified to give any advice to gay youth as their elder and be their role model. A role model doesn't get to teach the pupils to hate who they are.

    Instead of teaching them to wallow in self-hatred, the gay youth should be taught that when faced with discrimination and this heteronormative society, both of which are challenges that seem like a brick wall that is too ridiculously high to climb over, they should hold their heads up high and start climbing that wall one little step at a time.

    And the best way to teach the younger gay people such valuable lessons, which are to love themselves and not want to change themselves for the homophobes, is to put these words to practice ourselves, to climb our own walls with confidence and not give up, until we reach the other side. I believe I did reach the other side of my wall years ago. My wall was even higher than yours. You can do it too if you try hard enough.

    And when younger gay people ask for my story, and how I am proud of being gay having conquered the challenges the homophobes threw at me, the sparkle in their eyes, and their hopeful stares give me hope, it makes me happy to see them happy and proud of themselves.

    Being proud of ourselves for being gay, for being what the homophobes don't like us to be, makes the homophobes explode in anger. It's sweet, and they give up because they know we stand strong and will never give them what they want. They want us to be upset, to be ashamed of ourselves, to hate ourselves for being gay, and giving them the opposite of what they want will make them retreat and surrender as they know they've lost the game. Don't bow down to the homophobes and the heteronormative society they created. Don't give them what they want. Don't let them win.

    If you still so desperately want to hate yourself, and be jealous of straight people, then by all means. Stay miserable.

    But don't assume things about me. And just because you went through something, you don't get to act high and mighty and look down on others, even if they did not go through the same difficult things you did.

    [–][deleted]  (27 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Nohope 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

      You are. You don't have to directly tell someone to hate themselves for them to start doing that. The way OP and the others merely tolerate being gay and can't fully accept themselves will influence the impressionable lurkers and teach them "even gay people merely tolerate themselves, why should society accept them when they don't?".

      Never said I don't empathize with someone feeling isolated, or insecure, and genuinely asking for help to fix that issue. But that's not what OP and the commenters are doing at all. They don't mean "I am proud of being gay and don't hate myself, I just can't stand the heteronormative society". They mean "I was ashamed of being gay for years and though I say I don't hate being gay now, I do because I can't understand straight people. I wish I were not gay and were straight to be normal. I hate being different and being forced to face discrimination". That's tolerance, not acceptance.

      That I do not empathize with. You are free to waste your emotional energy on people like this. But I will not empathize with gay people that see being gay, being different from the rest, as what they can not take pride in and wish they could get rid of. They are enforcing the same homophobic message we have heard from straight people for years: "being gay is a curse, gay people can not be happy because they are not normal", as a result of which younger gay people will find it harder to fit in, and will hate themselves for what they are, because even their older gay fellow people think being gay is a curse - even though it isn't.

      The T should be criticized for being homophobic. But I think you can not efficiently criticize the T for being homophobic when you not only wish to give these gay people a platform here to speak out the hatred they harbor towards being gay/different, but also empathize with them for feeling as such. At best you would be hypocrites.

      And I believe not feeling beaten down, isolated and insecure, and instead staying strong during tough times like this are morally superior. You can not change and demand acceptance from society when you cowardly bow down to society and can not accept yourselves in the first place. It's easy to feel beaten down, to get depressed, to give up. But it takes a huge amount of bravery to get back up, fight, and not give up.

      Being a coward and bowing down to homophobes can not be better or even equal to taking pride in what we are and fighting with the homophobes until they realize they can't get what they want, they can't make us feel upset, ashamed, afraid, etc.

      And you are showing hatred towards the wrong thing. Gay people get bullied for being gay in this heteronormative society, it's not on the people who get bullied to change themselves, it's on the bullies to change themselves and it doesn't take much, they just have to stop harassing gay people and forcing heteronormativity down gay people's throats.

      If you want to hate something, you should hate the heteronormative society and the straight people that created it and/or let it continue on, not being different.

      Hating oneself for being different because one is discriminated against for it is victim blaming, and in no way can I accept victim blaming to be better than or even equal to accepting oneself and taking pride in being different.