It’s like they almost get it

submitted by ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah from archive.vn

all 40 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]Rag3 35 insightful - 5 fun35 insightful - 4 fun36 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Fellow trans gay man here, this shit pisses me off so much. And 90% of the time it’s not cis men transitioning to be lesbians(though I have heard of it) it’s cis women deciding to be gay men because it’s “uwu cute gay boi”

Uhh...what’s the difference between you and them?

[–]annoyed 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yeah like...what do they think separates them from those they are critiquing?

[–]diapason 29 insightful - 10 fun29 insightful - 9 fun30 insightful - 10 fun -  (1 child)

I feel bad for feminine trans gay men that cis girls are actually doing shit like that.

And how are we supposed to tell the difference, praytell?

[–]BigMommyMilkersYes, they're real 22 insightful - 5 fun22 insightful - 4 fun23 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

“Feminine trans men” LOL. That’s as bad as a “butch trans woman”

[–]justagaydude123 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Truscum has the only sane trans people on reddit. They're still heavily in the gender bullshit, but they hate trenders just as much as we do.

[–]artetolife 38 insightful - 4 fun38 insightful - 3 fun39 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

It's also full of trenders thinking they're more legit than other trenders.

[–]justagaydude123 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. I've noticed that the more I lurk there.

[–]fuck_reddit 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They're shitting on "cis girls" that do this but... how tf do they know these "girls" are "cis" if we have to believe everyone when they say they're trans???? Their is so fucking inconsistent and narcissistic...

[–]HelloMomo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

These are truscum, so they're probably adhering to a fairly strict "dysphoria" criteria. Not that it's much better, considering how malleable a concept dysphoria is, and all the people who experience dysphoria that goes away over time, or which they manage without transitioning.

But still, y'know, I don't think this is the "believe everyone who says they're trans" crowd. This is more the "we're the real ones and they're fakers who want attention!" crowd.

[–]fuck_reddit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah, that makes (slightly) more sense...

[–]reluctant_commenter 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Just curious-- I know some people on s/lgbdropthet are very anti-truscum while some are fine with them. (I haven't really made up my mind either way yet.)

For those against truscum: Are you opposed to them because you think they are actually AGP/autoandrophiles/whatever but less obvious about it...? Or because you think being transgender is a terrible solution for the problem of gender dysphoria? Or what?

[–]HelloMomo 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I appreciate how transmedicalists mostly act like sensible, respectable people. I appreciate the ways in which they're grounded to reality, because that's really something you can't take for granted these days. And if they want to live their lives transitioned and it makes them happy, and they're not for medically experimenting on children or sacrificing women's rights or gay rights, then I'm ok with that. I hope they live their best lives and are happy. It's still sexist, but like... they're not the only sexists in the world, and as long as they're relatively nonintrusive about it, I can live with it.

But like... they take it so seriously! If anything, I think they believe in their genders more than the others. Like many think that at some point, neuroscience is going to catch up and prove they have cross-sex brains or something. (Which like... even if your brain was demonstrably more along the lines of what's male-typical, that wouldn't make it a "male brain" any more than a tall woman has a "male height.")

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

even if your brain was demonstrably more along the lines of what's male-typical, that wouldn't make it a "male brain" any more than a tall woman has a "male height."

This is some good shit right here. I'm gonna use this next time someone tries to say they're 'truly trans' because of their brain. My fingers have a demonstrably 'male' ring to index finger ratio. Doesn't mean I'm literally male or meant to be male. My hands aren't suddenly male either. I have female hands because they're attached to a female body.

[–]HelloMomo 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your hands aren't "attached" to your body, they are your body. And every single cell of them contains XX.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I hope they live their best lives and are happy. It's still sexist, but like... they're not the only sexists in the world, and as long as they're relatively nonintrusive about it, I can live with it.

That's an interesting point, makes sense. In the very long run, I think gender identity ideology will die down in popularity but I wouldn't be surprised if a few people hang on to this truscum view.

[–]winterwillow 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm on a 'tired of trans bullshit' roll today so I'll answer :) Truscums make out to be the sane people of the trans community, and in some ways they are, they want to fully transition, they believe you need dysphoria, they don't seem as eager to 'crack the egg' if people are questioning. So that makes them easier to have a conversations with. I feel a bigger percentage of them are homosexual, which also makes them less likely to call everything transphobic.

So I guess in my early geendercrit days I wanted to believe that this was the 'true transexuals' and that they were allies in a way. But as time went on, I changed my mind on this mainly for these reasons:

They are incredibly sexist. This comes with the ideology of course, but the 'tucutes' accept someone as a feminine trans guy, the truscum do not. Their transition goals are masculine men and feminine women, and not just in appearence but also in demeanour.

They believe being trans is a medical condition, and many subscribe to the 'born in the wrong body' theory and various brain scan studies that are supposed to prove this.

Since they work so hard to get treatment/pass, they feel entitled to be stealth, even deep stealth i e not telling even long term partners about being trans since it's a medical condition they've taken care of and no one's business.

Also since they are more likely to be homosexual transsexuals, they can be very homophobic too, perhaps unconsciously, where the underlying sentiment is that they are the ones doing it right, correcting their body to match not so much their mind, as their sexuality, and us lgb who may be fighting dysphoria/depression/discrimination should just give in to the natural order. I think this underlying sentiment is also why they are so reluctant to call out homophobic behaviour from heterosexual transpeople, like deep inside they still feel they have a point, lesbians not wanting men is unatural, a straight trans guy not so.

I think it boils down to that I've done a lot of reading on early trans history, and I think the whole concept, much like the medical diagnosis of hysteria was based in misogyny, is based in homophobia and dates back to a time (the 1930's) where the latest fashion in medicine was to cure mental issues with surgery. Lobotomies the clear examples, but there are others, and the reason it endured was because of both homophobia and sexism and surgeons with God complex, who felt entitled to experiment on people they deemed unworthy of a place in society or love or even just a healthy sex life in their current state.

It's been almost a hundred years now, and in a way, the trans medicalusts and truscums still subscribe to this, even more so than the rest of the trans community. It is all very anti-human, anti-science, against all progress made in the fields of psychology and sociology, and I can't accept that. I understand that there are people suffering from intense dysphoria, I understand some are helped by transitioning, but it is extremely rare and there should be more options of treatment available besides what is basically sterilisation.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! That helps me a lot.

They are incredibly sexist. This comes with the ideology of course, but the 'tucutes' accept someone as a feminine trans guy, the truscum do not. Their transition goals are masculine men and feminine women, and not just in appearence but also in demeanour.

That's a great point... reminds me of Blair White, I think he/she thinks exactly that way. It surprised me when I realized that.

many subscribe to the 'born in the wrong body' theory and various brain scan studies that are supposed to prove this.

Which do not prove it, of course. More recent work has suggested that those differences disappear after controlling for homosexuality.

and I think the whole concept, much like the medical diagnosis of hysteria was based in misogyny, is based in homophobia and dates back to a time (the 1930's) where the latest fashion in medicine was to cure mental issues with surgery. Lobotomies the clear examples, but there are others, and the reason it endured was because of both homophobia and sexism and surgeons with God complex, who felt entitled to experiment on people they deemed unworthy of a place in society or love or even just a healthy sex life in their current state.

Fascinating stuff, I've known about the parallels with lobotomies but I didn't know other types of surgery like this were common! Do have any reading recommendations on this topic?

they work so hard to get treatment/pass, they feel entitled to be stealth, even deep stealth i e not telling even long term partners about being trans since it's a medical condition they've taken care of and no one's business.

Okay yeah that seems messed up.

and I think the whole concept, much like the medical diagnosis of hysteria was based in misogyny,

That's a great way of putting it... that transgenderism is to homophobia as hysteria was to misogyny. I'll have to think about this more.

[–]winterwillow 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hi! Sorry for replying late! Yeah I think it strange how some gendercritical people use Blair as an example of 'a good transwoman'. How can you work to abolish gender while saying it's ok for 'true transexuals' to uphold it the way Blair does? And it's not as easy to separate tucutes/truscum as who has dysphoria and who has not.

I listened to Meghan Murphy's interview with Keira Bell, who on all account fit the brief for a 'true transexual' but she still detransitioned. In any of the truscum subreddits, she would have been told the risk for that happening was zero. Was she just a trender then?

Blair and others like him can do what they feel they need to have a good life, I don't hate him or wish for transsexuals not to exist, but I do feel that the' truscum' idea that dysphoria = trans = wrong brain/body = only treatment - surgery, is simplified and damaging. In the short term for those getting caught up in the trend now, and in the long term for people who do benefit from the standard treatment.

About the other surgeries I don't really have a reading recommendation, I did some looking into it like 6 months ago, maybe I should write a post on it after the holidays, but you can look up Eugen Steinach and his rejuvination surgery which was very popular in the 1920's. "This procedure, along with testicular implantation popularized by Serge Voronoff, was an attempt to rejuvenate older and fatigued men around the world. (...) Ultimately the lack of verifiable outcome data and the chemical isolation of the "internal secretion" (testosterone) ended this era in surgery."

Steinach was a friend of Harry Benjamin if you're familiar, and his collegues were the ones performining the grs on Einar Wegener/Lili Elbe, 'the Danish girl' in the 1930's. This was also the early days of transplant surgery, which is perhaps why they tried and failed to transplant a uterus into the 49 year old male, two decades before the first successful kidney transplant.

There is also Henry Cotton, who was in charge of the Trenton hospital in New Jersey, who believed mental disorders were caused by bacterial infections and could be cured by removing spleens, ovaries and colons for example, and he operated on many of the commited mental patients. This was in the 1920's, and the concern for the treatment was not the science or ethics, but that so many patients died, perhaps more than 30%.

It is not hard to draw parallells between the 1930's ideas of racial hygiene and treatments of mentally unwell/homosexual people, when the idea of transsexuality as a medical condition emerged and todays attitudes towards puberty blockers, 'what's the harm in potentially mentally stunting/sterilising a would be gay/anxious child? They won't procreate or be useful to society in their natural state anyways.'

But I understand that some people would find it extreme, and don't see the parallells at all. And I'm not saying, look at the history, this means all transgender surgery is bad! Just that there are reasons that this came to be seen as a condition with one specific solution, and there's a reason why this persisted, while treatment for other mental health issues moved away from surgery.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Awesome, thank you so much... that's all SUPER interesting. And super messed up. What a legacy we have inherited. And I am totally on board with you, regarding the "truscums". I'll have to do some more thinking about all this.

[–]winterwillow 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're welcome!

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Truscum are often held up as being paragons of sanity in the trans community, but to me they just really don't seem to be as sane as people say they are. In fact, I think in many cases they're even more nuts than the tucutes.

Just the other day there was a thread on here about Buck Angel, I think it was a perfect example of this. If you don't know, Buck Angel is an FtM who is often considered a voice of reason/sanity. Yet Buck Angel was bragging about getting gay dick and going off on an actual gay man for asserting that actual gay men aren't attracted to females. And then flipping out over being called "ma'am". And Buck was essentially just acting the same way your typical Aiden tucute does. So while she may claim to believe in biological sex, she clearly still has some messed up beliefs about sexuality and she clearly believes that she's not a woman.

And then there's Blair White. (A popular MtF youtuber, if you didn't know). But he also seems to be in some weird denial about his boyfriend not being straight. And there was one video that I just found really disturbing. He was telling a story about how he was once roommates with another MtF, and the other MtF invited a straight man over to spend the night. Blair was against this, but I found his reason why kind of telling. He didn't want the straight man to come over because he was afraid things would get ugly. (Spoiler alert: they did.) He didn't say anything about thinking it was wrong or deceptive of his MtF friend to try and dupe a straight man into sleeping with him, though. No, he was only concerned about how things could go bad for him and his friend if the straight man reacted badly.

And it's honestly pretty disturbing to me how common this attitude seems to be, and just how many MtF try to dupe straight men into sleeping with them/dating them. There was some other MtF youtuber (can't recall his name) who claimed he never told his boyfriend he was trans until his boyfriend proposed. And a self proclaimed "gender critical" MtF I used to follow on Tumblr claimed that he'd dated lesbians and also slept with men without disclosing the fact he was trans. I just strongly feel that truscum/ "true transsexuals" words and actions don't match up. They claim to believe in biological sex and that they know that they're not really the gender they present as. But if they really believe that, then why do they still try to dupe people who aren't attracted to their birth sex into sleeping with them? The fact that they don't seem to see anything wrong with it says a lot.

So basically if tl;dr, I don't really think trscum are actually much better than tucutes. I don't think they really oppose tucutes on moral grounds, I think it's more that they they view tucutes as "posers" and themselves as "the real deal". But it seems like a lot of truscum also believe deep down that they're not really their birth gender.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He didn't say anything about thinking it was wrong or deceptive of his MtF friend to try and dupe a straight man into sleeping with him, though.

I watched this video as well; this is incorrect. Blair clearly disagreed with not disclosing and called it "deceptive as hell." Pointing out that it's also dangerous looked to me like trying to talk sense into members of the audience who might be trans and thinking about not disclosing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33HGY6-9IRE

[–]HelloMomo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In my experience, it's rare to see a truscum saying that anyone "should" date trans people, or trying to guilt people into. But if someone does date a trans person, they consistently seem to count this as the claimed gender rather than the bio sex.

I think this is a position they take because of what they want to believe about themselves. Truscum — moreso than tucutes — seem to have a notable thread of homosexuals trying to be straight. (Looking at you, Blair.)

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

was telling a story about how he was once roommates with another MtF, and the other MtF invited a straight man over to spend the night. Blair was against this, but I found his reason why kind of telling. He didn't want the straight man to come over because he was afraid things would get ugly. (Spoiler alert: they did.) He didn't say anything about thinking it was wrong or deceptive of his MtF friend to try and dupe a straight man into sleeping with him, though. No, he was only concerned about how things could go bad for him and his friend if the straight man reacted badly.

I have seen this!! I remember being weirded out by that, too. That's part of why I'm on the fence about Blaire. I used to watch his/her stuff several years ago but feel more mixed on it right now.

So basically if tl;dr, I don't really think trscum are actually much better than tucutes. I don't think they really oppose tucutes on moral grounds, I think it's more that they they view tucutes as "posers" and themselves as "the real deal". But it seems like a lot of truscum also believe deep down that they're not really their birth gender.

This seems like a great summary of the issues at play.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I dislike both camps equally. To me, it's a pick your poison kind of thing if someone wants to 'side' with trucutes or truscums. For me, I dislike truscums because while they claim to be sensible, the way they think is so regressive it makes my head hurt.

They claim their beliefs are rooted in science when they say 'you need dysphoria to be trans'. Okay, sure. But they will then ignore all of the science that points to gender confusion being a likely product of autism and other mental illnesses. They ignore the science behind why a small child might claim to be trans aside from being 'born in the wrong body', such as Jazz Jennings's father getting rid of all of his 'girly' toys as a young boy, or a young autistic girl having sensory issues with her breasts after growing them suddenly at age 10. FTM truscums in particular annoy me in this area because if you even so much as breathe in the tone of 'maybe your dysphoria is just internalized misogyny' they get defensive, they deflect, they shut down. Suddenly they cease to be reasonable because it doesn't matter which camp of trans you talk to, neither of them are able to face reality and actually get to the bottom of why they want to transition. They look at surface level dislike of gender roles and call it a day.

While they may be less likely to cry 'transphobia!' at every turn they are just as homophobic as trucutes. A trucute will say 'you need to unlearn your genital preference' and that's homophobic. A truscum FTM like Sam Collins on youtube will say 'I didn't want to be a girl who liked girls, I wanted to be a boy who liked girls' and that's just as homophobic, it's just directed internally rather than externally.

People hate trucutes for not being 'real trans' or 'trenders' because many of them defy gender roles (i.e feminine transmen and masculine transwomen). While I agree that's a bit ridiculous (because a feminine transman and a masculine transwoman will likely never pass), how are youtubers like Blaire White and Kalvin Garrah who say 'feminine women and masculine men are the only real men and women' any better? How is a person who truly believes that men are from mars and women are from venus, like most truscums are, any better than a trender who cries transphobia every time someone won't fuck them? Truscum thinking is extremely regressive and if we let them take the reigns because they're the 'reasonable' TRAs we'll be 100 years backward in terms of what's acceptable behavior for men and women.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But they will then ignore all of the science that points to gender confusion being a likely product of autism and other mental illnesses.

Just curious, do you have any sources or reading material where I could learn more about this? I have been meaning to read more about what gender dysphoria actually is but of course, a lot of content out there about it is written by people deep into gender identity.

how are youtubers like Blaire White and Kalvin Garrah who say 'feminine women and masculine men are the only real men and women' any better?

Wow, is this what they really think? Do you know like what videos they talk about this in? I've kind of wondered if Blaire thought something along those lines but that would be useful to know.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Study where they found the most common comorbidities with gender dysphoria are major depressive disorder, adjustment disorder, and phobias:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4142737/

Study where elevated rates of autistic symptoms and lack of empathy were seen in patients with gender dysphoria:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32770077/

This next one is interesting because while it concludes that patients with GID don't have other psychiatric comorbidities, the paragraph above that states that GID patients had instances of suicidal ideation at around 70% and rates of self harm at around 30%. People don't hurt themselves or want to kill themselves for no reason, so I find it odd that they found this, yet miraculously found such low rates of other mental illnesses. You could argue that it's the dysphoria causing the suicidal ideation, but again, most people who end up in that mindset didn't get there because of one specific thing. It's usually a combination of factors, and typically more than one mental illness. This study is a decade old though, the previous 2 are more recent:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20727112/

This is an article which has many other studies cited at the bottom but the article itself discusses how people with GID are up to six times more likely to be autistic:

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity

Regarding Blaire and Kalvin, here is a video where Kalvin and another trans YouTuber discuss an experience where they 'talk to a transphobe'.

https://youtu.be/zGXcvZtKXIQ

You can see Kalvin and London mention that they believe in order to be trans you need to be male or female brained in a body that doesn't match. The 'transphobe' they're talking about compares being trans to being schizophrenic (around 16 mins), and both Kalvin and London shoot this down by saying that they aren't delusional since they don't look in the mirror and see an opposite sexed person. However, about a minute before that (around 14:40) Kalvin says "I know in my brain that I'm a man." Sounds pretty delusional to me.

This next one is only one example of Blaire's where the subject of needing dysphoria to be trans comes up, but Blaire talks about it in many videos. Blaire says that dysphoria is a condition where you're unhappy with your gender role and secondary sex characteristics:

https://youtu.be/wUOjuiAikrU

Here is a reaction video (couldn't find the original) but here Kalvin and Blaire both agree that there are 'criteria' that need to be met in order for a person to be trans. It's at 4 minutes:

https://youtu.be/5k04xXGFOjc

Now, if we actually look at the DSM-5 criteria, particularly the section on diagnosing children, it says:

In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical feminine clothing

A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play

A strong preference for the toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender

A strong preference for playmates of the other gender

In boys (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically masculine toys, games, and activities and a strong avoidance of rough-and-tumble play; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically feminine toys, games, and activities

This is what Kalvin and Blaire believe. They think that gender nonconformity isn't a thing and that if you check these boxes that means you're automatically trans. I can't get behind that. This is why I call truscums regressive and sexist.

Another truscum, Jamie Dodger, and a prime example of FTMs who refuse to acknowledge internalized misogyny as a possible motive for transitioning:

https://youtu.be/6Avcp-e4bOs

It's at around 39 minutes, but Jamie poses the question "if transmen are trying to escape womanhood, why do transwomen exist? Why would someone who has male privilege choose to give that up?" Oh, I dunno Jamie maybe because being a man isn't all sunshine and rainbows either but you didn't grow up as a boy or live a significant portion of your adulthood as a man so you wouldn't know that.

Jamie's girlfriend adds fuel to the dumpster fire by saying that transphobia is worse than homophobia (yikes), and attempts to use transbians as a 'gotcha' because "why would someone go from male privilege and straight privilege to experiencing both homophobia and transphobia?" Either they aren't aware that AGP is a thing or they're ignoring it on purpose. They use this to prove their point that being trans isn't a choice. Jamie says "being trans isn't something I strategically chose" while completely ignoring that we make choices based on subconscious influences we aren't aware of all the time. Jamie claims to have known she was a transman before knowing trans people existed. So, what would we have called that before Jamie discovered trans people? We'd have said Jamie hated being a girl, and likely hated being a lesbian. We have words for that, internalized misogyny and homophobia. Jamie would likely claim that because trying to accept herself as a woman and a lesbian didn't work, that makes her a man. However, given that most therapists treating GID do not probe far enough to get to the root of the disorder, and only ask surface level questions in order to get the ball rolling on HRT, the more likely reality is that Jamie didn't get the proper help she needed. Same with Kalvin and Blaire.

I cannot call these people reasonable or sane. I don't care that we might agree that the loudest TRAs are making the whole community look bad. They're hypocrites who claim to have science on their side while ignoring the mountain of evidence that disproves their claims. They throw all nuance out the window because they know most people don't want to think too hard and won't bother taking apart their beliefs and expose them. Truscums pretend to be the authority on all things trans because they 'seem' level headed until you peel back the layers.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So many thoughts!!!

This is gonna be disorganized. If this were a "change my view" sub I would give you a delta. Lol. I'm on board.

  • GD criteria in the DSM-5

I have never actually looked at the DSM-5 criteria for gender dysphoria before. And reading it, I'm just... this was me. Like this was me as a child, lol. Wtf? But I am not trans, and I don't want to be a man. I am just a little gender non-conforming.

  • Studies

Those are some great studies you linked, thanks. I haven't seen that 2020 yet, especially! I agree with your point about the 3rd you linked. 30% of participants self--harming... that's really high. At the very least you would expect some of the more common forms of mental illness to be prevalent with that kind of rate, such as depression.

  • ASD article

That is a GREAT article, thanks. Well-organized and I love the interactive graphs, lol.

  • Blaire, Kalvin, and truscum

You can see Kalvin and London mention that they believe in order to be trans you need to be male or female brained in a body that doesn't match. 

I totally agree-- Kalvin is extremely out of touch with reality if he/she believes that their "brain is male". One, studies have shown that the brain differences that do exist (group difference averages, I might add!) are due to homosexuality and not to trans identification. Two, there are not "two different brains" one for each sex, there are just some common sex differences between the brains... and brains don't determine sex, reproductive systems (2 types of gametes) do.

Besides-- how would Kalvin even know what his/her brain is like without getting tested?? You hiding an MRI in that dorm room, dude?

However, given that most therapists treating GID do not probe far enough to get to the root of the disorder, and only ask surface level questions in order to get the ball rolling on HRT, the more likely reality is that Jamie didn't get the proper help she needed. Same with Kalvin and Blaire.

I cannot call these people reasonable or sane. I don't care that we might agree that the loudest TRAs are making the whole community look bad. They're hypocrites who claim to have science on their side while ignoring the mountain of evidence that disproves their claims. They throw all nuance out the window because they know most people don't want to think too hard and won't bother taking apart their beliefs and expose them. Truscums pretend to be the authority on all things trans because they 'seem' level headed until you peel back the layers.

I couldn't agree more with all of this. You put it very well.

Thank you, lol. You've given me a ton to think about and this is super helpful.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If this were a "change my view" sub I would give you a delta. Lol. I'm on board.

Aww thanks! I've always been a very logical and research oriented person, which was part of why I peaked because there's no logic to be found in trans world.

studies have shown that the brain differences that do exist (group difference averages, I might add!) are due to homosexuality and not to trans identification. Two, there are not "two different brains" one for each sex, there are just some common sex differences between the brains... and brains don't determine sex, reproductive systems (2 types of gametes) do.

Besides-- how would Kalvin even know what his/her brain is like without getting tested?? You hiding an MRI in that dorm room, dude?

EXACTLY. That's another thing, almost none of them have had a brain scan to prove that claim, yet they'll insist they have an opposite sex brain. Ask them how they know and it's all stereotypes.

I'm glad this was helpful. I didn't necessarily set out to change anyone's mind away from supporting truscums/transmedicalists if that's what they want to do, but I wanted to give my reasons for why I can't support them personally. I don't really care that they aren't 'the TRA who cried phobia'. The beliefs they hold are damaging in a different, more sinister way because they get people on board by seeming logical. Especially if someone wants to support TRAs but trucutes left a bad taste in their mouth.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Aww thanks! I've always been a very logical and research oriented person, which was part of why I peaked because there's no logic to be found in trans world.

Of course! And same here :)

EXACTLY. That's another thing, almost none of them have had a brain scan to prove that claim, yet they'll insist they have an opposite sex brain. Ask them how they know and it's all stereotypes.

Yeah that's just hilarious to me. It seems like such an obviously-ridiculous claim. I'm sure none of these people have actually read the papers on brain differences that they reference so much, because otherwise they would have realized that they are misrepresenting those papers.

The beliefs they hold are damaging in a different, more sinister way because they get people on board by seeming logical. Especially if someone wants to support TRAs but trucutes left a bad taste in their mouth.

Yup, totally agree. I think a lot of well-intentioned people want to believe that there is at least some reason and truth in the "transgender rights" movement. There really is not. The only kernel of truth I've observed there is that they acknowledge the existence of gender dysphoria, which is a problem for some LGB people. It reminds me of the movement about "repressed memories", have you heard/read anything about that? There was another user on here, u/haveanicedaytoo, who seemed to know a lot about it and it had a lot of parallels with the modern "transgender rights" movement.

[–]ImNOTRobertPaulson 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I’m a feminine leaning trans man whose in a relationship with another man and it pisses me off to see cis girls doing this shit.

Why so transphobic? I thought if someone identified as trans, that's all that matters? Why are these trans people gatekeeping others' identities?

(I would hope I don't have to actually say it, but this is meant as sarcasm.)

[–]HelloMomo 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

Say what you will about ContraPoints. But that video about how what people find cringey in others often correlates to what they're insecure about in themselves? That was spot-on.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How's the saying go... "I can spot a splinter in your eye but not a log in mine"? I find Contrapoints videos kind of fascinating because there are some solid pieces of truth and logic in many of them, but also some HUGE glaring omissions that speak volumes... have you seen his video talking about AGP? That one's a wild ride.

[–]HelloMomo 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I find Contrapoints videos kind of fascinating because there are some solid pieces of truth and logic in many of them, but also some HUGE glaring omissions that speak volumes...

Same. I'm still subscribed to him, because I don't want to put myself in an echo chamber. But I haven't watched his most recent few videos. The more redpilled (for lack of a better term) that I get, the harder I find it to set that aside for long enough to watch a video.

But also, I feel like I am getting a bit... weird about trans stuff. For lack of a better word, triggered. Like I could watch a youtube video of a flat earther talking about flat earth, and be interested and amused and not upset by it at all. And yeah, part of this is because transgenderism is fundamentally sexist, whereas flat earth is merely wacky. (Not all anti-science beliefs are equal. Likewise, I don't think I could sit through an anti-vaxxer video without getting angry.)

But I think another part of it is that I've gotten really touchy about this subject, in a way that I'd rather not be. Like at work, there's this big poster, about various worker rights, sick leave and vacation and pregnancy and whistleblowers and such. One little heading is about transgender rights in the workplace, and I bristle every time I see it. And really, there's no call for that. I'd like to just chill out about that, if I knew how.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Flat earth believers are not changing laws and not hurting children, not cancelling people and not putting people in prison for disagreement with them, Amnesty not calling to silence scientists and women who believe in non-flat earth, thought.

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But also, I feel like I am getting a bit... weird about trans stuff. For lack of a better word, triggered. Like I could watch a youtube video of a flat earther talking about flat earth, and be interested and amused and not upset by it at all. And yeah, part of this is because transgenderism is fundamentally sexist, whereas flat earth is merely wacky. (Not all anti-science beliefs are equal. Likewise, I don't think I could sit through an anti-vaxxer video without getting angry.)

But I think another part of it is that I've gotten really touchy about this subject, in a way that I'd rather not be. Like at work, there's this big poster, about various worker rights, sick leave and vacation and pregnancy and whistleblowers and such. One little heading is about transgender rights in the workplace, and I bristle every time I see it. And really, there's no call for that. I'd like to just chill out about that, if I knew how.

Dude-- I totally relate!! I'm so glad you mentioned that. When I was in the dark, it was so much easier to just not have to think about any of this. Now that I know so much more about the transing of children, rampant homophobia and sexism, I just look at all my far-left friends in such a different light... I just, it's so hard not to be cynical. I am hopeful about the future in terms of progress, e.g. news like the Keira Bell victory, but my god, I'm just so disappointed in all the people I know who have just fallen for this thing, completely... workplaces and friends and everything. This is actually kind of the first time I've really thought about it lol, so thank you for your comment. I'm so mixed because I would also love to just "chill out" and not stress about it, but.. this stuff going on IS heart-breaking and infuriating and frustrating, and it's so crazy to see it insinuate itself everywhere!

Some guy at my work was like, when there was an email chain going about wellness-related topics we could bring up at an upcoming meeting, "people never talk about trans rights enough!" and internally I was like oh my fucking god... trans rights are literally ALL OVER the media and the "trans rights" movement is causing unethical medical experimentation on millions of children and mentally ill people that is actively censored from mainstream media. Are you JOKING? And then I feel guilty for having such a strong reaction to a single comment.

Anyway. Point being, I relate.

[–]HelloMomo 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think the 2 biggest things to keep in mind:

  1. Most people just literally don't know. They're simply ignorant of the issue.
  2. With straight people specifically, I think some of them need to be "given permission" to oppose trans ideology. It's all riding on the back of the gay rights movement. They don't want to be homophobic, so they can't oppose it, even if it seems a bit off to them. I think the #1 most important thing the LGB Alliance might do is show the public that many gays and bisexuals oppose this. And that might then give straights permission to oppose it too.

Remembering this helps me be empathetic. Most of them are just normies.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those are good points, thanks. Especially the 2nd one-- I actually hadn't thought about it that way at all. Even though, back when I thought I was straight, I thought I couldn't have any opinions on LGB-related or trans-related issues. People just don't want to be "bad" people, I guess.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The comment sections are a laugh riot lol

[–]zerosis 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Back when I was a TRA, I kind of assumed all trans people were transmedicalist, generally grounded in reality, knowing the reality of sex, the importance of women's rights and homosexual autonomy, simply trying to relieve some agonizing mental health issue and live their life in peace.

Holy shit was I wrong.