all 22 comments

[–]8bitgay[S] 44 insightful - 1 fun44 insightful - 0 fun45 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Somehow I forgot to include this part.

It's amazingly bad. To them a transman is definitely a real man, but a feminine man is pretending to be someone else. And if you wear make up you're a drag queen apparently.

They try so hard to be inclusive to transpeople but it always involves being super restrictive about gender norms. Being compared to a feminine men is bad because to them men need to be masculine.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They try so hard to be inclusive to transpeople but it always involves being super restrictive about gender norms.

This all day! Precisely what's always bothered me.

And it seems inevitable, really. For "trans" to work, sex roles MUST be rigidly-enforced; otherwise, how can a man "become" a woman, or vice-versa? They need dress/makeup/long hair/pink = woman, and suit/no makeup/short hair/blue = man. Without it, there's no definition of man or woman aside from biology... and, unlike what you wear or how you behave, that can't be changed.

Which means not only that "trans" people must adhere to sex-roles, but, even more crucially, that the REST of us must. Because we're the way that they define their "transgenderism"-- what they're ostensibly "transitioning" to, and from. If we don't play our (gender) role, "trans" becomes meaningless... or, rather, is revealed as having been meaningless all along.

Basically, "trans" identity is dependent on EVERYONE at least pretending to believe in gender roles (i.e., sex-based stereotypes). Which certainly constitutes a problem for them, but shouldn't for us, since while they need us... we don't need them.

[–]bopomofodojo 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is exactly it, and why the entire notion of "trans", at least this strange modern biology-denying form, is inherently sexist. When "trans" just meant "gay man who liked to dress in drag and present as a woman" without denying they were a man, or "butch lesbian dressing as manly as possible" without denying they were a woman, it was not sexist. But this insistence that Gender Roles = Gender = Sex, and that if you deviate even slightly from these you must be "trans" or "non-binary", is inherently harmful and sexist. How did progressivism fall so far so fast?

[–]JulienMayfair 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's really no gender identity without gender stereotypes.

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 24 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Marsha was a brave black transwoman who started Stonewall. Comparing a trans person to a man who performs drag isn't cool.

Consistent logic not their strong suit.

[–][deleted] 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Internal consistency is an alien concept to transgender activists.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 30 insightful - 6 fun30 insightful - 5 fun31 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Apparently it is offensive to compare fake men to real men because the real men "aren't man enough" and that implies that the fake man isn't a man at all.

Apparently we should assume that women are manlier than men. In the case of James, though... that's not difficult

[–]denverkrisMy pronouns are Vodka?/Yes!/please 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They've been saying shit like this for years. Tw think they're more "womanly" than women because they "had to work for their womanhood". Sure Kaitlyn, sure you did.

[–]reluctant_commenter 19 insightful - 6 fun19 insightful - 5 fun20 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

What the actual fuck lol. They are the ones saying that Elliott Page is a man, but are then offended when she is grouped with other men?? There's no logical consistency... Are they offended because she's nonbinary, and shouldn't be compared to men for that reason?

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 11 insightful - 14 fun11 insightful - 13 fun12 insightful - 14 fun -  (3 children)

Meh, who cares. They still won't get any of teh gay cocque.

[–]insta 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There is value is getting these people to say that they don't view gay men as equal to your average dudebro.

You have to understand that these people think excluding trans people from your sex/dating pool is awful, but they also think you're not a man if you act like Mario Dedivanovic

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I get what you're saying.

However, I don't really care what they think as long as they leave me alone.

[–]insta 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

as they leave me alone

We both know that's never going to happen.

[–]fuck_reddit 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There wouldn't be any problem at all if they thought gay men were men. What schmucks...

[–]censorshipment 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I sort of get it... they don't want a "trans" person compared to a "cis" gnc person.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, at least James is actually a man. Ellen Page never was and never will be a man. Just a mentally ill woman and a self-hating lesbian.

[–]our_team_is_winning 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

"Some trans men are told they will never be men." Some flat-earthers are told the world is round.

[–]divingrightintowork 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are some reasonable voices in there, and some not so reasonable ones..

[–]8bitgay[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I included some of the reasonable replies because I think this is refreshing to see.