"I was honestly so much happier when I didn't think about gender" - that post here highlights quite important issue.

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[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 46 insightful - 1 fun46 insightful - 0 fun47 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This answer: https://www.reddit.com/r/butchlesbians/comments/k5owgb/_/gegxx75/?utm_source=reddit&context=3

Testosterone is anti-depresant, so "I liked how hormones feel" is very expected too.

Basically person is saying they were bullied into becoming a trans, and that it is all society fault, but they are too week to fight against it, and just living on drugs/hormones makes life so much easier to them, plus nowadays it is praised socially, so even more easier it becomes.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And testosterone is an anabolic steroid. Those are popular for a reason. Here's a fun related fact:

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/steroids-other-appearance-performance-enhancing-drugs-apeds/what-history-anabolic-steroid-use

"Most anabolic steroid users are male non-athletes aiming to improve their appearance by building muscle, and use of steroids is strongly tied to a male body image disorder called muscle dysmorphia (see “Who uses anabolic steroids?").19 Just as female body image disorders have been linked to unrealistic portrayals of the female form in fashion magazines and popular culture, muscle dysmorphia in males is linked to exaggerated physiques in action movies and other media over the past three decades.""

[–][deleted] 35 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 0 fun36 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I wish I could just watch Star Wars. I wish I could just go mountain biking. I wish I could just study computer science.

This depresses me just about as much as it angers me. OP is deep in internalized misogyny and it's extremely sad. Seriously, watching Star Wars is a statement because you happen to be female while doing it? Going mountain biking can't just be a hobby? Studying computer science as a woman has to be a big deal? My degree is in computer science and while it was not lost on me that most of my peers were male, it was never a huge deal that I was a woman in the field. Partly because I didn't make a big deal out of it unless some dudebro made a big deal about it first.

Y'know how we train society to stop pointlessly gendering things like this? Stop giving a fuck about it yourself.

[–]LeaveAmsgAfterBeep 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I don’t think a lot of them realize that they are playing into the rules of their own making (encouraged by social factors, but not rules per se depending on location that MUST be adhered to). They see the rules only having one escape- to not be a woman, it’s not all women, just them personally, because they can’t enjoy living inside their idea of a woman’s box. Women that transgress that barely register to them- there’s always a reason- or they don’t know about them don’t register the cognitive dissonance.

So there’s one exit strategy and it comes with peers and rejoicing and finally getting some of the things you never did while being just a woman- respect, compassion. And you can finally just like what you like and do what you want. And they don’t realize, but because the barrier to you not doing them was always in your own head anyway, just like your identity/exit strategy it’s much harder to perceive.

They also tend to not get... you can just not think about gender. It’s an option. Not everyone obsesses about it. But I have said and will say again, I think this is elements of an anxiety disorder in MOST of those who are in the nonbinary hyper obsessed with gender because they actually experience discomfort. It is basically similar to OCD.

[–]DeepseaDemon 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes! I agree with everything you have said completely. On that last bit, I’d also add on depression and eating disorders. There is far too much overlap.

[–]distortedlindsLady Muse 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

YES, the amount of gender dysphoric patients who have had eating disorders i think needs to be discussed and looked into more, its staggering.

[–]LeaveAmsgAfterBeep 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, and in some honest cases probably BDD, PTSD. Basically there’s a whole gambit of unchecked mental illnesses and trauma that plague those are sincere in their feelings, even if I disagree with how those feelings are coming out and explained by them. The eating disorders being neglected especially is criminal to me, being how destructive eating disorders can be and typically in people with ED + Depression I am told the ED is given the priority. For some reason, throw in a gender identity and the ED comes in second- despite them being the more deadly/damaging family of conditions than gender dysphoria by far.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed 100%. It's definitely a mental illness. Not to discredit societal influence, as I've been there myself regarding dysphoria, but the majority of them haven't even attempted to just, be GNC or do the things they like without making a huge deal over it.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's an internet-related disorder, I think. I think we can probably look at the past 15 years of middle-class society moving online and tie in some of these mental illnesses that seem to be exasperated by being online and mostly affect privileged communities as being part of a group of internet-related mental illnesses. Humanity has such hubris to think a new, constant and consuming technology would have no effect on our psychology and ability to adapt. We simply don't evolve that fast.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They also tend to not get... you can just not think about gender. It’s an option. Not everyone obsesses about it. But I have said and will say again, I think this is elements of an anxiety disorder in MOST of those who are in the nonbinary hyper obsessed with gender because they actually experience discomfort. It is basically similar to OCD.

Yup, totally agree and research shows that a disproportionate number of trans-identified people have anxiety disorders.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Isn't depressive rumination the (sorry) intersection of depression and OCD?

[–]LeaveAmsgAfterBeep 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean essentially it feels that way at least on the obsessive part of thinking, it can overlap with existential OCD and various other (informal) OCD topics, like trans OCD. However it doesn’t necessarily have the compulsive part, even the compulsive thinking and actions. Really depends on the person and what they’re going through and symptoms I guess? OCD in and of itself is an anxiety disorder so, you wrap some of these conditions up in a bundle of overlapping symptoms that encourage other symptoms of other conditions. I think my comment is more on the obsessional aspect of controlling appearance, identity, language, focusing on something you can control, and then also having the rules have meaning despite them not needing to, then altering one’s behaviors based on that. Not sure if any of this is a good technical or academic explanation, of course.

[–]blackrainbow 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

egg_irl culture

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah. My first thought was that they should just go do those things. Stop worrying about what other people may or may not think. No-one gives a shit about what your hobbies are.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. Having 'masculine' hobbies growing up definitely factored in to identifying as trans later on, but it was only after someone else came along and made it weird that I even thought about it at all. I started to internalize things I never gave thought to before, and when I realized that I quickly peaked and dropped all gender bullshit. It sounds like OP is the one making it weird in her head, and that society is making it worse.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 32 insightful - 4 fun32 insightful - 3 fun33 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's about how you phrase those feelings. Losing representation/feeling like you are lost or feeling pressure to transition due to the loss of representation is one thing, feeling like you're "losing a lesbian or the butches are being stolen" when a trans person comes out is another. The former is absolutely valid, the second is yikes.

Stop trying to control how everyone feels and describes their own feelings, my god. No wonder this person is dysphoric. Being a control freak hanging out with control freaks would put anyone on edge. You can never relax. Nothing can ever just be what it is. Also, the way they use "valid" is lit'rally invalid.

You can be whoever you are with the body you have, absolutely. Society likes to shit on AFAB folks if they don't conform to xyz or make them feel wrong or ugly for it, plus we are taught our bodies are negative/lesser etc. But honestly there has always been some of us throughout history giving society and those messages two middle fingers.

How do you say those first 2 sentences, internalize them, and not see the giant red flag parade all around you? And have they not seen all of the post-mortem transings and all of the creepy historical and archaeological over-writing where any sign that a female is GNC is evidence that she wasn't really a woman?

[–]Femaleisnthateful 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's a self-fulfulling ideology. The more we force people to think about 'gender identity' (and this is being introduced in schools to 6 yr olds now), the more people will feel it's important and obsess over it.

I'm beginning to think same sex attracted and gender non conforming people are calling themselves trans just to be empowered to exercise their own sexuality and presentation without judgement, since trans people are the only ones whose conduct isn't questioned.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(and this is being introduced in schools to 6 yr olds now)

Someone should challenge it on religious grounds. Make them prove evidence of a gendered soul or a wrong-sexed brain (though never the spleen or any other organ). There is no evidence for that, and their own argument is that it's an identity and not a mental illness, therefore the only option left is that it's a religious idea.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm beginning to think same sex attracted and gender non conforming people are calling themselves trans just to be empowered to exercise their own sexuality and presentation without judgement, since trans people are the only ones whose conduct isn't questioned.

Wow, that's a fantastic point. That... actually checks out.

edit: Also love your username.

[–]Femaleisnthateful 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! I came up with the username in an impulsive fit of rage after Gender Critical was banned on Reddit. Creativity isn't my strong suit...

[–]BiHorror 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Poor girl. Someone needs to teach her it's okay to not be normal and just do the stuff she wants w/o having thoughts (or guilt) about it.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The whole concept of normalcy is inherently flawed to begin with. A behavior is not "normal" just because the majority of people practice it. The majority of people in the US are overweight or obese. Is that "normal?" By the same logic used to defend heterosexuality, it is. Meanwhile, the T has taken "because I said so" to a whole new level.

[–]BiHorror 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The whole concept of normalcy is inherently flawed to begin with. A behavior is not "normal" just because the majority of people practice it. The majority of people in the US are overweight or obese. Is that "normal?"

And we'll have to agree to disagree there. Some things aren't normal, for example, I'm mentally disabled. There is nothing normal about that. Is it natural? Sure, because I was born with it. But it's not normal to have a mental disorder. People in the USA being obese is an exception, not the rule, other places do not see it as normal.

By the same logic used to defend heterosexuality, it is. Meanwhile, the T has taken "because I said so" to a whole new level.

Heterosexuality is considered normal as it is majority worldwide. There's nothing wrong with not being normal. Either way, I was referring to her being not feminine and that her not being it/normal was okay.

Edit: words

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think you guys might be using different definitions of "normal". It seems like the person you're responding to is defining it as "normal = okay to do or be" whereas you are defining it more in the sense of "normal = common". I think you're both right.

[–]shveya 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This seems like a common sentiment. A lot of these people say the dysphoria became worse when they "realized" they were trans.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seemed worth archiving.

https://archive.vn/Cm04B

[–]PepsicolaStressbian 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Surprised the terf police hasn’t banned it yet.. Comments are starting to get deleted tough.