Woke book review: Sylvia and Martha Start a Revolution

submitted by ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah from theapbookclub.blogspot.com

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[–]Lesbianese⚢ 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'd love to see someone who isn't drinking the Kool-aid review this children's book.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They might review it but good luck finding it.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Two drag queens get involved in a movement that has existed for decades as said movement gets more mainstream attention

FTFY.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the two transgender women of colour who helped kickstart the Stonewall Riots

Long exhale

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Harry Potter they burn but this they approve of?

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They both didn't even get there until after the rioting started lol. The trans crowd sure does like its historical revisionism, even when direct witnesses and participants offer contrary accounts.

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Right, but those are transphobic witnesses trying to remove the contribution of these two strong transwomen.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They engage in revisionism of everything else, why wouldn't they do the same to history?

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I'm young and not as well educated on this as I should be, so I have to ask: was any of what happened between stonewall and total legal protection considered a revolution? I know that there was violence and ultimately laws that protected same sex unions and prevented persecution based on sexuality, but when I think "revolution" I think Robespiere decapitating the queen or the colonies kicking Britain out of North America, not some laws being passed after people realized they were being stupid

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

The gay rights movement in the U.S. didn't start with Stonewall, but Stonewall did change the nature of gay activism and who was involved. That being said, gay rights have long been a slow burn and it didn't change that. The most prominent early gay rights orgs in the U.S. were the Mattachine Society founded by gay men in 1950, and the lesbian counterpart the Daughters of Bilitis founded in 1955 (though they were largely focused on women's rights not just gay rights). One of the Mattachine Society's biggest successes was bringing an end to the practice of police entrapment of gay men before the Stonewall uprising. The Stonewall uprising itself was galvanizing for many LGB people because it was LGB people, and largely men, including effeminate/gender nonconforming men, physically resisting and fighting back when gay men were publicly thought of as fairies/sissies. I like this quote from gay rights activist Bob Kohler who was there:

I had been in enough riots to know the fun was over... The cops were totally humiliated. This never, ever happened. They were angrier than I guess they had ever been, because everybody else had rioted... but the fairies were not supposed to riot... no group had ever forced cops to retreat before, so the anger was just enormous. I mean, they wanted to kill.

So not only was it a show of might, but it was a release of tension that had built up and galvanized many LGB people to join together and form various coalitions promoting different tactics and espousing different ideologies over the years. But progress was slow and returns were far from immediate.

The queers idolize Stonewall and try to bury Mattachine especially because Mattachine was less revolutionary in its approach. It was more like the NAACP, IMO. Stonewall was gritty, more "queer," more counterculture, and involved violence. I think we all know that LGB would not have reached the level of public acceptability that we have in the U.S. and in other places if Stonewall had served as the model for the gay rights movement thereafter.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It seems that stonewall was important for proving that the "pathetic fairies" wouldn't just lay down and die, but after that message was made clear, further violence would've held no advantage

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s my take. IMO the strategy that was successful in the U.S. was more equivalent to the homophile movement. Needless to say a lot of homophile movement adherents were not thrilled about how Stonewall happened, particularly its violent elements and I perhaps also the profile of the people involved in the riot, though there was a lot of, for a lack of better word, diversity across the group.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What about the White Night Riots of 1979?

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Funny then how feminine men are still viewed as "weak sissies" especially in the US. I'm calling bullshit on that. Both "sides" (pro-trans and LGB fanatics) romantacize Stonewall. I don't believe it ever happened the way everyone says it does. Unless anyone has footage I choose to believe it was just a bunch of rowdy drunks starting an uproar that the present has romantacized because "it's LGB(T) and therefore STUNNING AND PROGRESSIVE"

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have a degree in history and a particular interest in historiography, so I don’t just blindly accept watered down revisionist propaganda either but these accounts are based on primary sources including and especially those of the responding police officers, journalists, and non-gay eye witnesses who were there. And there is a lot of consensus. But yes it was wild and scrappy, and not some organized attack.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I find it interesting that gay rights in the US actually evolved in exactly the opposite way in which modern QT+ present it. They somehow like to present "ciswhitegays" as the enemy that try to stop gay rights and also had to be rescued by TWOC who swooped in and gave us all rights in a spectacular riot.

Things like stonewall did happen and they did bring a spotlight to the cause but actual rights came from a very slow process... rich white men who happened to be gay were best able to use their money to push the legal system forward.

Gay marriage was finally first achieved in Massachusetts through the courts. This is a very expensive and slow process. The religious right then miscalculated public sentiment on this issue and focused their efforts to put a ballot question up for the people of the state to overturn the courts. They thought that letting the voters decide would put the gays in their place and scare all the politicians from ever touching it again.

To their surprise, when the ballots asked voters if they cared about gays getting married they said no we don't care. This flipped everything on its head. Now right wing politicians were even nervous to go too hard against the gays. State by state the same thing started happening. We used the courts to move the law because their anti-gay laws were actually unconstitutional.

It's not that white gay "straight acting" men are somehow better than others in the rainbow but we just benefit from being part of the privileged majority. More educated, higher income, no children, and a reason to blow your expendable income on a specific political goal. It isn't complicated or some conspiracy to hold down TWOC... it's just how things happened don't feed into the QT+ narcissism.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It was never a "revolution." It was a riot of rowdy drunks. But because it was "LGBT" people glamorize the past.

As a Russian? I don't give a fuck about some riot decades ago in America. It did not "give me rights." Angry drunks of the past didn't give me permission to apparently have basic human living conditions. Sources indicate I would never have lacked them in the first place.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 13 insightful - 7 fun13 insightful - 6 fun14 insightful - 7 fun -  (5 children)

If you feel this way, there's no one stopping you from starting an LGBCynical sub where you can shout your frustrations of being an unwilling homosexual into the text-based void.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So you've been following this too

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Since the Reddit days, when he was still salty_emo_lizard. At one point, he made a new account and insisted he was another person, but the writing was the same. Didn't take me long to find him again on here XD

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hope he feels better

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe someday, but bitterness only grows worse with years.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe. But that's effort and 1. few people would probably be interested, and 2. it'd probably be taken over by the pride tards & radfems, just as everything else is

[–]distortedlindsLady Muse 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"They are kind and brave and not afraid to speak their truth, even when it makes other people angry."

Y I K E S

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

At first I read "the truth" and I was like "no," then I read "their truth" and that made more sense. See, there is a difference.

[–]distortedlindsLady Muse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

HA, yep!

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lib adults' obsession with pushing revolutions on preschoolers is ridiculous

[–]divingrightintowork 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Welp the reivews are good at least.

[–]fuck_reddit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The one long one made me sad at how much they're using Malcom's memory and name to their own political advantage... it's truly sick.