BisexualThose are all bisexual with extra steps

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[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift. 28 insightful - 4 fun28 insightful - 3 fun29 insightful - 4 fun -  (15 children)

Why do bisexual people hate calling themselves bisexual so much?

Like, seriously, it's kinda weird how much people do to 'get out' of being bi. Why is that? Celebrate your bisexuality. It's your label.

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 42 insightful - 1 fun42 insightful - 0 fun43 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Because, between the confused gay teens calling themselves bi, the attention-seeking straight teens calling themselves bi, the perception of bisexuals being promiscuous, the perception of bisexuals being smugly self-righteous, the perception of bisexuals being "unreliable" members of the LGB community, the perception of bisexuals being just as sinful and perverted as L&Gs by the straight community, the perception of bisexuals being transphobic by the woke community, and several other issues, being "bisexual" can feel genuinely lonely and even fraudulent.

[–]reluctant_commenter 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

That really sucks. Do you think there's anything we can do here in this sub to try to counteract some of those negative factors? Sometimes I see negative comments on here about bisexuals and I try to report and/or debate them. But maybe it would be helpful to address the issue head-on?

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This sub isn't too bad, all things considered.

There is just a lack of awareness that bisexuals have their own unique problems, not just "part-time homophobia". They're stereotyped in unflattering ways, similar to Ls and Gs, but not quite the same. (Being sex-maniacs, always up for threesomes, unfaithful.) They're accused of faking (which does happen, sometimes for understandable reasons, but doesn't mean all are fakers) They're accused of having privilege, or easy sex lives. (There is a fair number of people, straight and gay, who will say they would never date a bisexual. Again, seen as untrustworthy or unfaithful by nature.)

I don't mean to be entering the oppression-olympics here. The point is that bisexuals are just people, who, like the Ls and Gs, want to live their lives in peace. A little bit of empathy goes a long way. We're not trying to redefine genders, deny science, compel speech, or demand sexual partners. (Some bisexuals do get very salty about those who don't want to date us, but really, those ones need to suck it up.) We just have non-standard wants in our sex lives, and we have that in common with all LGBs.

Only thing to do with haters is to remind them of that. They'll listen or not, but also remember that online, you're not trying to convince the person you're arguing with. The odds are too shit for that. You're really trying to convince the people who are watching the argument, the lurkers. So, debunk the bad stereotypes where you can, encourage empathy. That's it, as far as I can suggest.

This is why I tend to speak up for asexuals, who all too often have their problems dismissed by LGBs. They're told they don't experience discrimination or abuse, or that they can easily pass as straight, but really they are inundated with constant messages that they're abnormal or mentally or hormonally defective, they face disappointed families and attempts at "fixing" them, and they get accused of faking the label (and some people do identify as asexual just because they're shy/scared/unlucky in sex and drop the label later in life -- sound familiar?) All they really want to is live their lives in peace with their own sexuality.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not who you were replying to, but I think just being able to talk about how different things affect us without being told 'biphobia isn't real, it's just homophobia' or similar things. Also, not shooting down the discussion when someone brings up an issue within LGB. This goes for all of us, not just bisexuals. Sometimes it isn't straight people causing the problem and that needs to be brought up too sometimes.

For example, it's perfectly fine to discuss how damaging it is for AGP 'transbian' straight men and attention seeking bi girls to call themselves lesbians, and for fetishistic ftm straight girl fujoshis to call themselves gay, but Ladis's comment was probably the first time I've seen someone here point out how damaging it is to bisexuals when LGs call themselves bi before coming out as gay. I'm not saying this is something that can be easily solved. I understand why LGs call themselves bi in the process of figuring things out, or if they need to be closeted and bi might be 'safer' than 'gay' depending on the situation. But it still reinforces the idea that bisexuality isn't real and that we're really 'just gay' or 'half straight half gay'.

People acting like bisexuals have nothing to complain about us also a huge thing. We get it from all sides. From TRAS: "You like both so it shouldn't matter to you how I identify or what my body looks like." From LGs: "You have het privilege when you're het paired and when homo paired you experience homophobia. Biphobia isn't a thing." From straight people (mostly straight men in my experience as a bi woman): "Threesome? What do you mean no, you're bi."

Biphobia is real. People thinking it isn't is a product of people viewing bisexuality as a combination of gay and straight rather than its own thing. Yes, we experience homophobia. Yes we do have the option of 'passing' as straight. No, that doesn't mean biphobia doesn't exist or that we don't have struggles unique to us independent of straight people and LGs. We shouldn't be shut down for trying to talk about those struggles.

When you consider all of that it's no wonder a lot of bisexuals will call themselves anything but bi. That's not an excuse though. It's a huge problem. Not using the label doesn't do anyone any favors and it's one of many reasons we're in this million genders, million sexualities bullshit.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

but Ladis's comment was probably the first time I've seen someone here point out how damaging it is to bisexuals when LGs call themselves bi before coming out as gay.

Same here. It is something I would personally be interested in talking about more, and hearing from bisexuals about. Full disclosure, I myself came out as bisexual before admitting to myself that I was actually gay (I have so many hangups with calling myself gay or lesbian, lol). But, the few times I have mentioned that to people on saidit they have often jumped straight to accusations of, "Oh are you really gay?" or even "Oh are you just a lying bisexual?" I feel bad for contributing to the issue by identifying as bisexual so long, when I am not, although it was accidental. But is also messed up that simply figuring out one's sexuality has such a negative connotation to some people here-- and that people jumped to pinning the blame on bisexuals...

One other thing related to biphobia, I think, that I would be interested in hearing bisexuals' perspectives about-- but no pressure if you'd rather not talk about it, yourself!-- I have noticed that when a TRA is, say, a woman dating a transgender-identified male, or a person who expresses "everyone is bisexual," people on this sub immediately assume they are bisexual. But multiple other causes often explain this phenomenon:

  • Stuck in abusive relationships. The Trans Widow blog is an example of this. Trans-identified males can be violent and manipulative, and some of the women posting their "lesbian relationships" on the comphet subreddit may actually be trapped in abusive relationships. But people here often jump to calling them "confused bisexuals"...

  • Fetishes - Many of those who choose to date trans people, do so because of a fetish, not because of their sexual orientation. It is inaccurate to simply assume a person's sexual orientation on the basis of their dating a trans person-- not because there is ambiguity about what a lesbian or gay man is, but because fetishes may be the explaining factor and not sexual orientation. But instead, people here jump to assuming sexual orientation and it's often bisexuality that people assume, as a "catch-all" or again because the person dating a trans person is assumed to be "confused" or even mentally ill themself.

Sorry, I accidentally wrote you an essay lol. I'm sorry you guys have to deal with such negativity on this sub and elsewhere. I have seen it happen myself, I know biphobia is real. Some people are vicious.

edit: typo

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You highlighted a lot of important things. And no worries about having used bi as a label in the past. Like I said, it's understandable, and figuring out your sexuality is difficult for a lot of people. I don't think you should harbor any guilt over that, because it's a product of homophobia and not wanting to be a lesbian, as you said. That's a much broader issue. It's just something that doesn't get talked about much. I hear a lot of legitimate criticisms of bisexuals co-opting gay and lesbian labels they shouldn't, even if it's for similar reasons (avoiding biphobia like LGs avoiding homophobia) but very little of the reverse.

I think if people as a whole were more accepting of all sexualities (the real ones, not the gender woo woo ones), and took them seriously, people wouldn't look at all bisexuals as secretly gay or liars just because they know someone who used to identify as bi but has now come out as gay.

I have noticed that when a TRA is, say, a woman dating a transgender-identified male, or a person who expresses "everyone is bisexual," people on this sub immediately assume they are bisexual. But multiple other causes often explain this phenomenon

Definitely. Many of those women behave that way because they think it's the right thing to do. The women in those abusive relationships think forcing themselves to see their husbands as women is supportive, and go to a lesbian space for advice because they can't leave the relationship yet.

As for the fetish thing, you're spot on. There was someone here who said that only bisexuals would willingly date a trans person when that's not even remotely true. I didn't want to get into the story with them, but since it's relevant here I'll share something I read on r/detrans. A detrans woman there expressed that even on T, people were still able to clock her as female. She said people would compliment her on her 'costume' and say she looked like a woman with a beard. She had guys hitting on her and they'd say things like "I'm not usually into guys, but..." These guys aren't bisexual. They were playing along with her desire to be seen as a man in order to get in her pants. They're straight. Maybe they're into masculine women or have a fetish for trans men, I don't know. But that doesn't automatically make them bi.

I don't want to seem like I'm playing the victim card here, because the way some bi's act pisses me off too. I hate when I see bi women calling themselves lesbians. I hate when I see bi men preaching to gay men that 'some gay guys like pussy'. But we should also be able to talk about WHY so many bisexuals would rather hack off a limb before calling themselves bi.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Really appreciate your asking (and having our back where bi-negative comments are concerned, too).

Yeah, I, for one, would like to see this issue addressed head-on. And actually, the "head-on" part is important in its own right. Due to the very nature of biphobia. Which basically comes down to: we don't exist. We're not a sexual orientation at all (just straight or gay people who are indiscriminate, deluded, poseurs, etc.); we don't really belong with the LG; we're so spoiled by "straight privilege" that our complaints needn't be taken seriously; we're not worth paying attention to. We are, for the most part, unacknowledged, invisible. Dealing with the problems we face head-on is acknowledgement; it's proof that we are visible to you.

And for a group that's ignored by default? This is a good place to start.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Because, between the confused gay teens calling themselves bi

It's not confusion, but the use of bissexuality as a second closet.

Most gay men that do this only do so because they think declaring themselves bissexual can spare them of harsher social backlash from their friends and family. It's the old "it's just a phase" with a new coat of paint basically, as it implies even a little possibility of a 'normal' heterossexual life.

In time though, most start to notice how the "bissexual" men only go out with other men and only talk about other men, and the mask starts to crack...

the attention-seeking straight teens calling themselves bi

This mostly applicable to woman, specifically college aged ones, that want to better fit in ultra-progressive social groups. In time they all drop the facade and revert to their real straight selves after they graduate.

They're also the ones that use bissexuality as a mating strategy, and we all know how offensive to bissexual woman and lesbian this shit is.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

For lesbians, bisexuality as a stepping stone is commonly out of confusion. Both men and women have sexy women thrown at them in marketing is all over the place. So if you’re a boy who is not getting aroused by women, I think you’re more likely to realize that really quick. Women are pressured to have no sexual boundaries and to be at least a little bicurious for men’s benefit. If we are attracted to women, it is easy to write it off as just this. It often takes us time to realize that other girls/women do not feel the way we do with their surface-level “girl crushes.” And again the pressure to be attracted to men is strong. So much of what we are taught in our upbringing is how not to act because boys won’t like us. We know men hold the power in society, so there is so much pressure against being a lesbian. In this environment it can be hard to come to the conclusion that you’re not actually attracted to men.

This isn’t the case for all lesbians, but it’s very common. I spent a lot of time “deep-closeted” as in generally being aware I was attracted to women and generally aware that I found attraction to men difficult, unnatural, uninteresting, unappealing, and tenuous at best. And I accepted my attraction to women as legitimate before I gave up on trying to be attracted to men and realizing I didn’t have to keep trying to force what wasn’t there.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Whether it's out of confusion or not it's still a problem of non bisexuals calling themselves bi. I feel for LGs who are confused or have to be closeted to avoid backlash, but it reinforces the idea that bisexuals are all secretly gay and causes people to not take us seriously. It's not something that has an easy solution, as it's a symptom of broader societal homophobia and sexism, but it still needs to be said.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with you. I was just addressing that bisexuality is not necessarily a “second closet” that gay people keep themselves in. I just wanted to address that I didn’t purposely use bisexuality as a cover or second closet or anything like that and I don’t think it is as common among lesbians to do so, as it is for gay men for the reasons I stated. Other than in Hollywood, I suspect.

But I totally agree that it creates an unfair stigma on bisexuals that they’re going through a phase or are confused. And I don’t think a lot of gay people think about the role some of us play in that. A lot of people just project their own experiences on others as the way they assume things are for everyone.

And if I was confused during the process of coming to terms with my sexuality, I can’t imagine how much more confusing it is if you are actually bisexual, especially if you’re a woman who is primarily female-attracted, but still has some attraction to men. Again, not trying to say all bisexuals are confused, just that it could make recognizing your own bisexuality more difficult because you might not have to face it as head-on or as early in life if you can still be happy with the opposite sex.

Also I think some people default to bisexual at first because unless you’re a LARPing woke idiot, gay sounds extreme and if the rule is one exception makes you bisexual, than it feels less risky to assume that and be wrong than the other way around.

Edit: I wanted to clarify that I didn’t ever really publicly identify myself as bisexual. I just conceptualized myself as some flavor of bi. With my friends who I talked about my sexual orientation to early on, I focused mainly on talking about my attraction to women without a label. I did tell a few people in private that I considered myself bisexual but I realized it didn’t feel right and retracted it.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I understand. I didn't want to seem like I was pointing fingers or anything. Figuring our your sexuality is a confusing experience for many. I get why many people identify as bi as sort of a stepping stone, though it doesn't change the effects that has on bisexuals routinely having our sexuality treated like a phase or straight up not even real.

[–]SwampOphelia 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This. So much this. I am a serial monogamist. I have never had a one-night stand. I'm just attracted to, and have had meaningful relationships, with both men and women (with factory standard equipment). I hate being thought of as a degenerate with no filter. Ime, this is different than gay men and lesbians, as most people don't think of them as having no standards.

[–]Wandering_Idiot 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I think the big issue is people mis-using gender. Sex=biological, gender=sexual stereotypes that can vary across cultures. I'm a demisexual and I really don't mind if people call me bi or lez; however, I feel like it's an insult to bisexuals and lesbians simply because its implying sex doesn't matter to them.

Bisexual is attracted to two different sex not gender. Lesbian is attracted to the same sex not gender. Demisexual is default to zero attraction until a strong emotional attachment forms. Just to be clear, I'm not attracted to someone's biological sex nor do I have any form of genital preference. The issue I have with squishing them all together is it implies that bisexuals and lesbians just need to find the right dick.

[–]BiHorror 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the big issue is people mis-using gender. Sex=biological, gender=sexual stereotypes that can vary across cultures

TQ+/"GC" are misusing the term "gender." Sex and gender are both sex related. It's not short for"gender identity" or "sex stereotypes" bullshit. Unless you know... You support the discredited works of a pedophile. Cultures, those who do have the word for gender, barely use it to mean "sex stereotypes." It's either synonymous with sex or Grammatical gender.