A link between anime and gender dysphoria in males? Written by a male from a GC pov, but I thought I'd share here for a wider perspective.

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[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'll start, I wonder if this is the male equivalent of ROGD. If young girls are struggling to come to terms with being a woman and going down the ROGD route, then is transgenderism for some trans-women / NB males just a coping mechanism for young guys struggling with masculinity and it's implications? I don't think masculinity and femininity are entirely socialised— even then I think some of the social roles of men and women are useful (esp. for heterosexuals), however there is a social aspect to it which can be tricky for young men to adopt. But what would I know, I'm a woman. Men, do any of the author's thoughts ring true to you?

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not a man, but I completely agree with your take about rapid onset gender dysphoria (ROGD).

I think it is as much a mistake to say that transgender-identified females can't be fetishists, as it is to say that transgender-identified males are all fetishists. There are clearly a significant number of fetishists and gender-nonconforming (to some degree at least) people in BOTH camps. I admire JKR for speaking out about the misogyny that fuels many girls' decision to transition-- but realistically, that is just one part of the bigger picture she's honed in on, even though it is accurate.

[–]diapason 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I think it is as much a mistake to say that transgender-identified females can't be fetishists, as it is to say that transgender-identified males are all fetishists.

Absolutely. One of the early things that made me question the whole trans narrative was when an old (female) friend decided she was trans … she had fetishized gay men a lot and was just generally a pervert (to an extent that's really pretty rare for girls TBH), and then she started transitioning and getting incredibly mad at anyone who accidentally used her old name or feminine pronouns for her, even if they'd known her since elementary school lol

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

she had fetishized gay men a lot and was just generally a pervert (to an extent that's really pretty rare for girls TBH)

It's funny you say this. I have actually known a few girls like this as well... I wonder if people don't think girls are like this, as often, because they're just quieter about it. Whereas some boys are much louder about their fetishized obsessions.

[–]diapason 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Probably—I think there are more than are generally given credit, even if there are a lot more guys out there who are like that comparatively speaking. The difference is girls/women with fetishes and stuff are only really going to openly talk about it with female friends (who most definitely do not want to hear about it 🤢) and aren't as likely to be predatory towards others, so other people just aren't as likely to be aware cause they keep it to themselves more

[–]Lesbianese⚢ 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Oh, I think this is from the dude who hangs out on Spinster. I saw so many women REEEEEEing that he was on there, even though he mainly was just posting receipts of misogyny and homophobia from TRAs, "transphobic" memes, or interesting articles on occasion.

Edit: Finished the article, pretty interesting and makes sense to me. Aligns well with that I've already observed and stuff on Kiwi Farms. My older brother has talked about anime being a trigger for these men for a long time, having been friends with young men that ended up transing themselves due to their anime addiction.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't hang out in GC circles much because I disagree with some of their points. But I checked ovarit today and thought this was interesting, and possibly a good way to better understand what is going on with the people jumping on the trans bandwagon. I have no idea who this person is but he seems thoughtful.

[–]Lesbianese⚢ 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't hang out in GC circles much because I disagree with some of their points.

Yeah, same here. Tried using Spinster once because they didn't have censorship rules re: trans but the women on there were nutty and very intense so I deleted my account pretty quickly.

I have no idea who this person is but he seems thoughtful.

He was pretty chill even though there were so many women angry about him being on there, assuming this is the same guy. His username was the same as this blog's title.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

Radfems: MEN ARE A PROBLEM, THEY NEED TO OWN UP FOR THEIR CRIMES, THEY NEED TO PAY

Men: ok helps out, posts articles, shows support for the issue

Radfems: NO NOT LIKE THAT REEEEE GET OUT OF OUR WOMBYN-BORN-WOMBYN ONLY SPACES YOU NASTY MISOGYNIST

You can't win with those people. I find it funny that they already made 2 FeMaLe OnLy social media sites after Reddit, Spinster and Ovarit. Because they didn't like that SaidIt or wherever else had nasty non-radfems I guess.

[–]bastetkat 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Didn’t you say before that you “never see radfems complain about the men who actually do bad things or men who enable other men.”.

Which is it?

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Except males genuinely trying to help isn't "males actually doing bad things or enabling other men." Radfems don't attack the bad men. They attack other women & guys trying to help.

[–]bastetkat 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

"Radfems don't attack the bad men"?... That's a straight up lie that even non-GC people can recognize. And it's not like radfems are following him around trying to silence him everywhere else. I visited that place and it says on their about page that it's women-centric and was created to give the banned women on Twitter a platform to speak. I'm guessing they wanted it to be a women's only space, but there's no way of confirming everyone's sex. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a space for a specific group without others trying to speak over them.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I've legitimately never seen a GC post that goes after men for problems they cause. They always attack women & "allied" (read: asskissing) men first. Like in discussions of say, casual sexism, they won't make posts calling out their male coworker who makes sexist jokes or how it's normal for men to say mean things about women. No, they'll post fucking rants about how Susan from their female-only book club has a husband and therefore is an ENABLING HANDMAIDEN COCKSUCKING STRAIGHT BITCH who is evil because obviously she's supporting sexism by... spins magical random wheel of radfem bullshit being heterosexual and not being a radical feminist. Or they'll complain about how that one (1) male poster who posted some important article about the dangers of gender or porn is an EVIL MALE INFILTRATOR even tho their sub never said it was female only, and that he literally wants to kill & rape women by INVADING THEIR WOMYN BORN WOMYN SPACES.

With the exception of special cases like Yaniv (but even then, GC was blaming his mother, lol) it's pretty much always other WOMEN who get the blame.

I know because I've seen it firsthand. I posted on /r/itsafetish back when it was still up and somewhere along the lines, some crazy radfem mod started going off on me because I mentioned I was a GNC guy, so obviously I was just like those evil MTF misogynists and that I needed to get off their radfem-exclusive sub, even though it was never advertised as female only.

Anyone can make any space they want but the thing is GC are hypocritical about it. I believe in free speech and everyone, even idiots, should be allowed to say whatever shit they want. That's fine. But the issue is that GC want these special echo chambers where they can say the most offensive, aggressive, anti mentally ill, anti intersex, anti everyone who's not a radfem, ironically anti woman shit they want, BUT they don't want anyone to complain and they don't want their "opposing" groups to have a platform.

A MTF posts something on twitter saying that he's owed sex? Omg evil rapist. Twitter ban him please, and ban all trans too, they are spreading dangerous ideology.

A radfem gets banned from twitter for saying that intersex women are men & that mentally ill = evil rapist psychopath? OMG this is sexism, they are SILENCING WOMBYN. We need to RISE up. How DARE they ban us?!

I just think it's stupid that they keep opening these PUBLIC "female only spaces" and then get mad when people don't tolerate their bullshit or argue with them. If you want a true echo chamber where no one disagrees and you won't be punished for being a hateful, batshit insane jackass, go make it private.

[–]bastetkat 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So because you’ve never seen it, it never happens? I could also argue that I’ve never seen radfems do some of the things you’ve stated, therefore, “it never happens”. Lurking on radfem blogs and accounts is what helped me peak trans, and also think critically on certain sexist and misogynistic activism and movement that I never even thought was harmful due to my previous liberal feminist beliefs. Back then, I was one of the women radfems would’ve definitely criticized I guess. Instead of resenting radfems for also calling out women like me, I’m grateful for them for opening my eyes to the blatant harmful activism and movement that is currently masked as “progressive”. I’m grateful for them to make me realize to not to let the “woke bro libfems” who have their own agendas to speak over me and act like they know what’s best for women. From my experience, I can confidently say they do call out the bad men and that they fight for women’s rights. About the Yaniv thing, do you genuinely believe giving Yaniv’s mother some of the blame a bad thing? Radfems and people in general mainly blame him of course, but should we give his mother who enables and defends his predatory behaviour a pass because she’s a woman? And btw ovarit was invite only, not a free for all.

Edit: You’ll keep having your own opinions on radfems and that’s fine, but let’s not start claiming blatantly false information as fact just because you’ve personally never seen it.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I lurked several GC places for years. Tumblr, Reddit, Twitter, you name it. I am being completely honest when I say yes, they only seem to attack women and "allied" men on a large scale. They always, without fail, will find a way to blame a woman (or "allied" man) for men's abusiveness instead of abusive men.

Don't pretend like I just saw one "crazy radfem" and made a naive opinion. I have been in that shit deep and seen it all, it's literally the reason I am so much against them.

You were literally indoctrinated, congrats! You know you can replace your experience with TRA phrases instead and it reads the same, right? "Lurking trans communities made me realize I was transphobic, now I have ditched my problematic ideology. They opened my eyes to tolerance & gender identity, and I'm grateful that they made me challenge my transphobic ways."

Radfems are as much of a cult as TRAs are. They don't care about oppression, they don't care about doing good, all they want to do is recruit and create an echo chamber. That's why they'd bully you for being a non radfem and why they go after women who aren't. They pretend that their ideology is the only true right way, just like TRAs, and everyone else is evil.

In the same way that some tiny percentage trans people don't think it's "transphobic" to be gay, don't hate or shit on intersex people, and aren't sexist, doesn't mean that their ideology isn't the fucking problem that's full of those things.

[–]bastetkat 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't doubt your experiences, if you say you've never seen it, then you've never seen it. However, that doesn't mean my experiences suddenly becomes false. Please tell me how me realizing that TRA movement is trying redefine words like woman, promoting conversion therapy by using "woke language", allowing predators to easily enter female only spaces, promoting violence against women by calling us "terfs", etc. And realizing how a lot of the libfem activism doesn't really do much for women. How is all that the same as being "indoctrinated" into believing the trans ideology? I actually learned to think critically thanks to radfems, I mentioned that in my previous reply. Did I get "indoctrinated" because radfems showed actual receipts of what TRAs said themselves and all the damages that they've caused? If so, then this place would be "indoctrinating" us as well. I have been lurking in GC places and followed several of them for 4-5 years now, but my experiences are nothing like yours. Do I need to start pretending as if my own experiences never happened just because you never experienced it? Again, I could also argue the same to you. Anyone could replace other people's words with TRA phrases instead. That's not much of an argument.

Edit: Since I don't have an account on spinster, I decided to just now visit the other "evil radfem echo chamber".

They don't care about oppression, they don't care about doing good, all they want to do is recruit and create an echo chamber.

They're discussing topics ranging from the bad men, to the female victims, to the societal gender roles/stereotypes, politics, celebrating women from around the world, etc. I don't see the overwhelming amount of "women and allied men are to blame!!" posts.

[–]ThisSiteIsUnusable 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Dude, we all know you're lying or delusional. Or lying and delusional. And if you're just lying I'm a little insulted you think anyone is dumb enough to not notice.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah yes, the old TRA-I mean radfem tactic. Fuck, you guys are getting hard to tell apart.

"I have no argument so I'm just going to say you're a liar and/or mentally ill, because mental illness is bad!!!!!"

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To be fair, Reptillian, GC does have a Saidit as well. I agree w/ a lot of radfem positions (not all, but many), and I don't think men are the problem. Some of those women are hardline though.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I know, because 1 or even 2 websites isn't enough. Same reason that TRAs force their way into everything, from Reddit to casual hobby communities. Literally can't go anywhere on the internet without a trans person making it all about their stunning & brave identity and soon you won't be able to go anywhere without "radical goddess witch wombyn" preaching their BS either.

[–]chandra 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting article. I can definitely understand the idea that young men would get sucked into slice-of-life anime. I saw a few back when I was very into anime in my teens, and definitely found myself wishing that I could vacation in that life (the hyper-dedicated group of friends who spend all their time having fun together and have no real responsibilities) even though, being in high school with a big group of friends, my life was already as close as it gets to that in the real-world anyway! I can easily imagine how a lonely person could get totally sucked in and end up in an online slice-of-life anime girl LARP.

Seems a stretch to go from that to identifying as a girl though. Surely you'd have to really hate who you are and what your real life is like to actually create an entirely new anime girl persona rather than just incorporate your actual self into the fantasy. But even then it seems like a leap from role-playing a girl and actually identifying as one.

[–]8bitgay 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I tend to dislike this "anime is bad" view that is often present in this sub, but that actually makes sense.

I watch these slice of life animes too. But I stick away from the "cute girl" slice of life style. I try to find slice of anime that either have male protagonists or non-human characters. If you look for it, there is plenty of representation in anime of "soft" male characters, of cute guys, of guys that don't perform a sterotypical (and straight) masculinity...

But sure, if you're a straight male viewer it's much easier to find the tons of animes made for a straight male audience that have a cast full of cute girls. And I guess I can see how such a viewer might relate to these girls when they're the only characters he has ever seen that have a chill personality and a chill life.

I don't think the problem is in these anime girls though. The problem is obviously that men are taught that, being men, they can't be this way. So you see people sure that they're non-binary or even trans just because they don't fit the gender stereotype they were taught. I guess for many people their male/female identity is a prison, tied to the many stereotypes and expectations that were given to them by society. Identifying as something else is an escape from their prison.

In a smaller degree, the problem is also the lack of male characters like this. Although media can't solve years of problematic socialization, it could offer an alternative. It could offer male characters that male viewers that don't conform with stereotypical masculinity could relate.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Anime brought us ton of AGP men and Yaoi loving women. Anime is ruining a lot of things... This is why we cant have nice things.

[–]bastetkat 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn’t necessarily put all the blame on anime. I blame the fetishists. They’ll even take the most innocent kid cartoon and turn it into something despicable.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

i think the fetishist anime is what helped accelerate this issue. there are so many good anime before the current high school fixation that we see today. hell, you still get gems here and there! it's sad that the industry has turned it's face to the most extreme consumers who will spend anything and everything for their waifus.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Regardless of whether they're fetishistic or not (and I'm not saying there aren't fetish anime because there definitely is), but something as unfetishistic as My Little Pony had a massive male following and was fetishised to kingdom come. Things don't have to be inherently sexual to be sexualised. These guys will fetishise anything.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

sad but true. My Little Pony is that reminder that anything innocent is not off limits.

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 7 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

This is what you get when you nuke a country twice.

[–]reluctant_commenter 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish there was more mainstream awareness of the connection between anime and transgender identification (for all the reasons in this article and more).

It's such a common factor present in so many cases of transgender identification. But most older adults who are currently in control of medical systems, school systems, and legal systems, wouldn't think to ask or even know about it at all.

My bet for the next few years, the early 2020s... I think we're going to eventually start seeing articles in mainstream publications, explaining all these things. A NYT article following a young transgender-identified male and his anime addiction and subsequent transition journey, for example. It's pretty easy to picture. And once shit starts hitting the fan in the legal system, people who were previously checked out of this whole gender ideology debacle are going to start wondering aloud: "Why? Where did this all come from, anyway?" I think it's inevitable that anime will get involved in the conversation.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

If you dare to feel light-hearted joy in the first place: don’t dare expressing it with a heartfelt laugh, because laughing is for when you’re victorious over your rival whom you’ve just dominated — otherwise it’s a frivolous girly expression.

Just wanted to point out an interesting anecdote on this. I was actually attacked over this by GIRLS back in the 90s. I remember this because it really stuck with me at the time. The biggest moments were at work at my after school job. You are doing some mundane task so it's easy to daydream about events of the day or some movie you had seen. Like your brain just organizing thoughts. I'm over there minding my businesses and in my head start remembering a comedy sketch or something so I smile while looking at my task that I'm doing.

I worked almost entirely with girls my age. Occasionally 1 guy or an older person. Suddenly a girl on the other side of the room yells at me "what the fuck are you smiling about?"

I just remembered being SO confused. I never got this from guys just the girls. Like I was completely minding my businesses on the other end of the room and suddenly one of them sees me having an amusing thought and is legitimately angry and stopping everyone's work to yell at me about it and get me to stop.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I reckon women can be just as bad as men at enforcing bad standards of masculinity / femininity.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Where I live I find women to be much worse with this. The men might be more annoying with obviously gendered issues like making fun of a male ballet dancer but with subtle things like smiling to yourself or wearing certain clothing it's the women who attack for some reason.

[–]fuck_reddit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah the first part of the article is conjecture at best... more postulate than empirical.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah definitely, that's why I wanted to read what men had to say about it because I can't tell from my own personal experience whether or not this is legit

[–]Mermer 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So basically, men who want to become a girl becouse they think being a woman is all about wearing cute make-up, being submissive and pretty.

Honestly I just wish it was more of a norm for guys to be subs and for guys to wear dresses and make up ect. so we wouldn't have to deal with those extreme fetishists.

It makes me extremely uncomfortable when I see a man who just has to mention he's trans on nsfw subreddits describing his sexual desires to be a lesbian and I'm supposed to be ok with that. Everybody is like uwu trans, but like it just so gross to me I'm not at all into that stuff if I were I'd go to a different subreddit.

[–]strawberrycake 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I want to point out as an anime fan that this is very much a Western issue. This also probably won’t help much but anecdotally I know a lot of nerds who are “normies”.

[–]Locke 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wanted to leave my gender on this account ambiguous for a while as a sort of experimental thing, but there are a lot of things I can't get across properly without stating I'm a woman. I was born female and have never questioned it.

I love anime myself, and sometimes watching anime about "cute girls doing cute things" cheers me up. I don't limit myself to anime aimed at women and can enjoy almost anything. The glaringly obvious fetishization reminding me something is aimed at men often makes me uncomfortable. Not even in a moral way. I write kinky erotica. I've done a lot to accept and embrace my sexuality. The thing is, I watch anime for the story. If I wanted something sexual, I'd read erotica or watch porn.

I watch anime for the story and the characters, and I like immersing myself in a fictional world for a while. It's always been an escape for me when I've needed it. It throws me off how often anime aimed at men overtly reminds me it's aimed at men. When I'm immersed in a story and care about the characters, I know it isn't real, but it throws me off how often I'm suddenly expected to sexualize a character. I've been accepting that I'm bisexual, so it's not even that it's usually female characters being sexualized. How forced the sexualization tends to be is just so off-putting to me.

I identify as demisexual along with bisexual, though I can admit that the demisexual label probably isn't an innate thing about me. It's probably a response to trauma, sexual repression, long-term repression of my bisexuality, and rebellion against the hypersexuality pressure of society.

Sometimes I'm embarrassed that I like to consume a lot of media aimed at children and young adults. A big part of it though, is even though I have no problem with sexual content, I don't like being constantly bombarded with it.

It's awful how much men are taught to repress their emotions. It's awful how many think they have to become female to be emotional. Cute boys can do cute things along with cute girls doing cute things. Representation in media of boys and men being unapologetically in touch with their emotions without ridicule for it is sorely needed.