all 33 comments

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 35 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 0 fun36 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are two core things that we can all agree on: drop the T and same sex attracted people should have the same rights as everyone else. Everything else is up for debate. I like that this subreddit doesn’t require you to have a certain ideology. After all, anyone can agree that the T does not belong with LGB.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 27 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I pretty much agree with everything you said. I prefer this community because of the diversity of viewpoints and opinions. I’m not a radfem. I’m not anti-radfem though. I think they do a lot of good issue-spotting, and they opened up my eyes to the rot that is liberal (not) feminism. I’m gender critical-aligned, but not pure gender critical. In general, I don’t adhere to any particular ideology but I like to expose myself to different schools of thought.

Politically, I’m liberal. A real one. Not a woke drone or mob member. Unfortunately the genderism thing has made me realize how many self-styled liberals in the west are not who I thought they were. Suddenly, conservative criticisms of liberals started to make more sense. But no, I’m not conservative because I still have liberal values. I’m just not into identity politics, authoritarianism, language manipulation, devolving everything into isms and phobias, or the bastardized intersectionality cult. I do believe that things like sexism, homophobia, and racism are real and complex issues. I don’t believe in focusing on petty micro shit. I used to get sucked into these purity spirals but no more, and the gender/trans issue really did help me break out of it.

I frame my thinking under the idea that “we still need to live in a society.” I don’t expect everything to be exactly fair, but I do think governments should look out for gross injustices and do real analysis about why that is and work on plans for moving forward.

On phobias, I don’t believe at this point that transphobia exists as its own separate issue from sexism and homophobia. I also don’t think somebody and especially a child radically changing their body is a positive thing or neutral outcome. It should be seen as a last resort and not an option for children at all. With adults, they can do what they want, but I shouldn’t be expected to pretend that what they’re doing is healthy and normal. It’s extreme. That is why I do appreciate Blaire White’s and Buck Angel’s perspectives. There is very valid criticism of them, but they don’t pretend like transition is something people should casually do. They are concerned about medical risks. Those voices are needed IMO if we want to build momentum.

On being gay in this climate, this sub keeps me sane. I feel like an island IRL. I have to hide how I feel about so many things around gay people. It sucks because I’m not unattractive, I have a good job, good income, and am highly educated, but I feel like there’s no dating pool for me. I’m into some but not a lot of “gay culture.” I’m liberal but not woke. I believe in a lot of feminist principles, but I’m not radfem and fucking hate liberal feminism. I’m gender critical aligned, but personally I do exhibit a lot of stereotypical femininity. I wear makeup, I do my hair, I like getting dressed up. Not every day but I do find this stuff fun. And I don’t feel like ascribing any meaning to it and defining myself over it on the one hand, or being shamed for it on the other hand.

Where are the homosexual and bisexual normies???

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Hiding from the woke mob that is the mainstream currently.

[–]chupacabrawitchI'm super thanks for asking 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This kinda sounds like me too. I'm not very political, I'd say I'm socially liberal on some things and conservative on others, but I left the left because of all the crazy that seemed to amp up the past few years. I almost fell into the TRA camp until they started to really push the whole gender ideology shit and denying biological reality and other things that didn't make sense. I have no problem calling someone whatever pronouns they want unless it was something stupid like zir, but that didn't mean I was ready to accept their idea that transgender people are the same as being a biological male or female. I don't want trans people being murdered, but I didn't believe in the misgendering is literal violence shit. Or that for gods sake males should lock in the same prisons as females, because who in their right minds would?? I didn't know what "cis" even meant til a few years ago. And the whole reddit banning and censoring subs for going against the hive mind, yea I was upset that lesbians couldn't have an exclusive place. I left actual lesbians years before it became what it is now. I also pretty much left lgbt because it became too "woke" for me. All the moderates like me left that shit.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Circlejerks of any set of beliefs tend to become toxic pretty quickly. Even though drop the t could be defined as that there’s a huge variety of beliefs within this community that help balance it out

[–]reluctant_commenter 23 insightful - 4 fun23 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I agree, it's nice to have a variety of opinions. Every once in a while there's a thread that kind of turns into a dumpster fire, but you know, sometimes it's nice to watch those too, hahaha.

[–][deleted] 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I feel the same way about Ovarit. It's a nice little place but I don't really feel welcome to share my true thoughts there. I've had a few comments removed by mods over the past few months because my views don't fall completely in line with their ideology - and half the time they weren't even my views, I was just playing Devil's Advocate. I deleted my account about a month ago.

I'm happy with our tiny corner of saidit though :)

[–]ColoredTwice 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I really dislike them having downvotes. Topics about veganism showed why Saidit or Twitter formats are much better - if ratio between upvotes and comments is high, means it is bad or controversial topic. Everyone goes and voices their opinions, instead of just silently mass downvoting without reasoning why.

[–]Willpoll 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One for all and all for one!

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I prefer "nonpartisan".

I don't feel loyalty to any political party. In the US saying bipartisan implies something that democrats and Republicans agree on and if they agree on something it's usually bad for everyone.

[–]Lesbianese[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a fair point, I'm not loyal to either myself.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 12 insightful - 7 fun12 insightful - 6 fun13 insightful - 7 fun -  (9 children)

bipartisan

Shhh, this sub has a bias against anything bi, don't say that out loud!

Also I wouldn't say this sub is truly open; different ideas can and do get shut down. Less so now that there's no downvote. On the original reddit sub your post would be buried with downvotes if you even remotely expressed you're not a leftist or don't support radical feminism.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (7 children)

Others: "Fuck bisexuals they sleep around!!"

Bi people: Well, actually no I am happy in a monogamous relationship and don't cheat. It's not any different from others sexualities chea---

Others: "Well, bisexual people are gross and have man/woman residue, we don't want your gay/straight cooties"

Bi people: Okay...so you can sleep with multiple people and not be considered to have cooties, but we slept with the opposite/same-sex one time and now we---

Others: "Yeah, well, doesn't matter, you're going to leave us for the opposite/same-sex"

Bi people: What if the person of the opposite/same-sex leave the bi person, what's the diff--

Others: "WOW!! We're not obligated to date you!! So why are you telling us what to do!?"

Bi people: We're not...you can date whoever you want. We don't care if you date us or not, it's just we don't like being stereotyped as this crazy, promiscuous, attention-seeking, infected by sexual diseases people.

Others: "WELL, you have nothing to worry about because you're one of the good ones"

Bi people: Isn't that rather...biphobic?

Others: "LOL biphobia doesn't exist!"

Bi people: Okaaay, cool. See ya later.

Inb4 someone says "I'm not biphobic for XYZ" or "you're making a strawman argument!".

What are your thoughts on radical feminism by the way? I'm conflicted myself...I agree with some of the things they say but not completely. Occassionally, I hear very...off-coloured stuff that is very disheartening to hear.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yep. That's sums up about 90% of gay men/lesbians on this sub it seems. I also don't agree with their idea that: - sleeping with the opposite sex once - being attracted to the opposite sex once - thinking about the opposite sex in a curious or non-negative way once

makes you bisexual. By that logic I'm bi since I used to date women and it wasn't omg literally torture. I just wasn't into it.

I've seen some people expressed total confusion over the fact that I'm a homosexual male who not only doesn't hate bi people, but actively will stick up for them against biphobic bullshit.

Also, I think everyone should have the right to not date whoever they choose, and honestly if they say "I don't date bi people" they're probably a shithead you don't want to get involved with anyway, but I genuinely don't understand that stance, because given the choice I'd much rather date a bi guy than a gay one. Simply BECAUSE bi guys are more likely to have some experience with both sexes, and being a very feminine guy, a bi guy might actually respect & like women while gay guys are quite often sexist, and project that sexism onto feminine men.

Plus I can't stand nor understand "gay culture" or the "gay community" so I feel totally alienated and unwanted by gay men. There doesn't seem to be "bi culture" from what I've seen, and at the risk of getting flamed in the comments, in my experience bi people are more likely to act normal and not make an entire obnoxious identity out of their sexuality. (Again, that's telling from this sub. Countless posts from lesbians/gay guys about how being lesbian/gay is literally their life and if a bi person DARES to mislabel themselves lesbian/gay OH MY GOD THEY ARE PERSONALLY HATEFULLY ATTACKING ME, but I've never seen that level of obsession with bi posters.)

I think radical feminism is a dangerous ideology. Yes, sometimes they have good points (porn is bad, gender is bad, etc) but only in the same way that super conservative Christians also think that gender is bad.

Radical feminism being a hateful, cult-like ideology is probably the only thing I agree with on TRAs. While I think it's bad that free speech is being censored on sites like Reddit, and people should absolutely not be silenced for trivial shit like "transphobia", I can't say I oppose radfems having their echo chambers banned and "deplatformed" (kicked out of mainstream sites) in the same way that the alt-right communities were.

Radical feminism is pretty much proof of horseshoe theory; they are the leftist version of the right wing "traditionalists" who claim not to be racist/sexist/whatever but then advocate for male & white supremacy. Except with radfems its flipped and they're female supremacists, some unironically talk about making female only countries (lol) and letting males die off. Interestingly though they're also very white-focused and they can't focus on non-Western, REAL women's issues for five minutes before snapping back to "hurrgh this guy I talked to online is a misogynist lesbophobe because he said my echo chamber community was bad" or "omg this bi bitch in my womyn born womyn crystal healing group calls herself a lesbian she is LITERALLY oppressing me, fuck this handmaiden cock-worshipping whore I hope she dies"

[–]Lesbianese[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"omg this bi bitch in my womyn born womyn crystal healing group calls herself a lesbian she is LITERALLY oppressing me, fuck this handmaiden cock-worshipping whore I hope she dies"

Bahaha! That's so accurate. As if their personality wasn't bad enough, they also have to be into woowoo shit like that and have a fetish for witches.

I spent some time looking at radfem lesbian blogs earlier this year, mainly because they were most vocal about TRA homophobia and yeesh. They constantly obsessed over who was a real lesbian, saying that you could only be a lesbian if you were a gold star who has never even see a penis. Even if you are a True and Honest Lesbian, I can't imagine that not making you uncomfortable.

Bi people get some totally unnecessary shit thrown their way, especially in those radfem circles. If a bi woman even breathes on you, you're tainted and can't be a lesbian anymore. Fucking morons.

[–]SickOfThisShitNow 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think what you are seeing is a push back against radfem beliefs that any woman can identify as (or in their words "become") a lesbian if she abstains from sex with men for political reasons. So their belief (or at least the mainstream radical feminist belief) is that a woman that is attracted to men but chooses not to have sex with men is a lesbian. It's called "political lesbianism" but these days they just call themselves lesbians rather than political lesbians and it is now predominantly bisexual women who choose to only have sex with women because they hate men who call themselves lesbians. They redefine being a lesbian as being about hating men and have basically created something call lesbian feminism which doesn't really represent the interests of or experiences of actual lesbians. And some of them are genuinely lesbophobic. But you can't challenge their lesbophobia or say that their feminism isn't actually representing lesbians because they all identify as being lesbians. Meanwhile on the queer side, you also get both heterosexual and bisexual women who identify as lesbians (eg because they are dating a transbian who finds that validating) and shame actual lesbians as transphobic genital fetishists because we're not attracted to males. It's not surprising that many lesbians are now trying to gatekeep the language under these circumstances. It's not meant to exclude actual lesbians who have had sex with a man in their past (although some people want to muddy the water by claiming it is) but I think it does make lesbians more wary of someone who has had a lot of past male partners and says they are a lesbian and, if I was getting to know someone like that, I'd probably want to weigh them up to work out if they are either a) man-hating "political lesbian" or b) one of the queer words-mean-whatever-you-want-them-to-mean types. In my case, I would be open to dating a bisexual woman but someone who lies about their sexuality or potentially thinks that words just have no meaning and everyone can just identify as whatever they want definitely isn't for me.

[–]Lesbianese[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I get what you're saying, I've thought about it some myself. I think the women I was seeing were going way too far though. Just obsessing over it and being unnecessarily cruel to random women who didn't recognize their lesbianism the moment they were born. I feel they're over-correcting.

I would be open to dating a bisexual woman but someone who lies about their sexuality or potentially thinks that words just have no meaning and everyone can just identify as whatever they want definitely isn't for me.

That's understandable to me. I feel the same way.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. That's sums up about 90% of gay men/lesbians on this sub it seems. I also don't agree with their idea that: - sleeping with the opposite sex once - being attracted to the opposite sex once - thinking about the opposite sex in a curious or non-negative way once makes you bisexual. By that logic I'm bi since I used to date women and it wasn't omg literally torture. I just wasn't into it.

Ehh this is a massive exaggeration of a hot take for this space IMO. I can't speak for the gay men in here, but that would be an unpopular opinion in s/Lesbians. I'm open about the fact that I was in a relationship with a guy for a long time who I married, and no one has tried to tell me I'm not a lesbian in here.

One thing you need to keep in mind about lesbian gate-keeping is that we do get some weird non-lesbian people invading lesbian spaces and posting a bunch of questionable and off-putting stuff, misrepresenting us, and trying to speak on our behalf, so I can understand people being suspicious, especially when we can all see what happened to r/actuallesbians. So I don't take it personally when people scrutinize my situation because I know my story checks out, and anyone who would write me off because of it is not someone whose approval I need. All of this being said, I will not deny that there are lesbians who are aggressively and paranoically anti-bisexual, including some who I have seen post here, and who seem to enjoy any excuse to make anti-bisexual generalizations. But I also see resistance to those comments.

I also know that many lesbians who post in here distinguish in their minds between the more homophobic and/or TRA bisexual types and the bisexuals who post here and are normal human beings who are not part of the problem. Though they don't repeat this in every comment they make about bisexuals. And for my own part, I also constantly point out that many of the worst faux girldick-exalting lesbians are not bisexual women, but heterosexual women and that this often gets unfairly projected on bi people.

And I did think of myself as some flavor of bisexual before I realized I was just a lesbian, so I have been immersed in both the bisexual and lesbian perspectives on the areas of tension. And because I'm an utter nerd and fun at parties, I think there is a lot to be gained by having a formal dialogue/open Q&A about these issues between lesbian and bisexual women because I can absolutely see both sides and how problematic individuals on both sides stoke the flames and entrench the rest of us even further into our positions.

I invite anyone to challenge me on any of this. I'm not trying to shut down this discussion.

[–]insta 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Bi guys are the biggest closeted bottoms.

Change my mind.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hello fellow gay!

you belong here!

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I like Ovarit for the nice UI and the formating. I've been able to have discussions with others, even though we don't agree on everything.

But...as you mentioned, it's really geared toward a certain ideology(radfem). Occassionally, I see some messed up comments about how ALL men would rape if they could without consequence, and that they are predisposed to be predatory and aggressive because that's their "DNA". It's like...don't these women have sons, fathers, brothers, husbands, uncles, male cousins, friends & colleagues???

Why do they say such things??

I'm on Ovarit, because I would like a place that's female-oriented and was tired of female-spaces being invaded by the T. It'd be like if I invaded a male-only space. They have the right to have their own space too.

As for saidit...as a whole, it's interesting. Not my type of forum perse. I don't even like reddits layout either.

I prefer old school forums or even the old bbs system instead. i also don't understand the reddit style forum (I have no idea what else to call out) formatting or lingo.

What does it mean to say: "Edit: word" and...is it ettiquete to always add "Edit: [explains something additional]"? I do that edit because I see others but I do not know if it is needed or excessive? I am still a noob to reddit style forums(saidit, ovarit, voat, ruqqus, etc)

Though, I do like that on saidit there's no downvote arrow, because I found that rather lame. People never used it right on reddit. You're technically only supposed to downvote if the content is off topic from that subreddit---not because someone disagrees.

I do miss that there were MANY active subs on reddit to check. I never really commented on political based ones(like this one). I just went to interests/hobby ones.

I don't feel I can go back to reddit anymore though. It's overruned by a bunch of college pansies kids who start arguments over nothing and offended by EVERYTHING.

I only made a saidit account because I could NOT find places like LGBDroptheT or Gender critical type of places outside of "reddit style" websites.

Tried discord, but those particular groups are inactive or...just...kinda boring and I kinda don't like discord based on it's privacy policy and overall user interface---I'm picky.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

they are predisposed to be predatory and aggressive because that's their "DNA"

I always side eye comments like that on GC/Ovarit because I thought the whole point of being (purely) gender critical was abolishing the idea of brain sex and innately gendered behaviors. Then they turn around and say stuff like that which completely derails the "brains aren't sexed" argument.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right?! They're being completely hypocritical!

There's some other things in particular that I find hypocritical about how they conveniently change/mold the meaning of what it means to be gender critical, but I won't get into that lol. I just happen to be a bit more...hardcore in my definition than others, heh.

[–]NutterButterFlutterStill waving into the void 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What does it mean to say: "Edit: word" and...is it ettiquete to always add "Edit: [explains something additional]"? I do that edit because I see others but I do not know if it is needed or excessive? I am still a noob to reddit style forums(saidit, ovarit, voat, ruqqus, etc)

For "edit: word", people do that because sometimes they'll submit a comment, and then go back and edit it in a minor way, and they aren't sure if anyone has already seen and/or responded to the comment yet. It's certainly not mandatory, but it's considered polite to do if you're in an especially busy/active sub and there's potential that someone is already typing up a response to your prior/unedited comment.

For "edit: explains something additional", it's helpful to reduce what's considered comment spam. Like, lets say you comment about something, and 10 people reply saying "WTF, that makes no sense, what do you mean". Instead of replying to all of those people, you edit your original comment to clarify. So it stops the churn of people replying to you in confusion, and doesn't clog up the thread with you copy-pasting your clarification to all 10 people.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Ahh, I see! I was confused if "Edit: word" was just a way of correcting grammer/spelling and they reduced it to "Edit: word". That makes it easier now haha.

For "edit: explains something additional", it's helpful to reduce what's considered comment spam. Like, lets say you comment about something, and 10 people reply saying "WTF, that makes no sense, what do you mean". Instead of replying to all of those people, you edit your original comment to clarify. So it stops the churn of people replying to you in confusion, and doesn't clog up the thread with you copy-pasting your clarification to all 10 people.

Oh lol that makes sense! I didn't know if I was being excessively spammy by putting (a couple of) edits in my comments sometimes.

[–]NutterButterFlutterStill waving into the void 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I didn't know if I was being excessively spammy by putting (a couple of) edits in my comments sometimes.

It depends on the sub. Most subs don't take issue with it, but once I was given a temp-ban on different subs for multiple-edits to a comment. IIRC, it was r/news and r/AskWomen

Also, just to add to your confusion :)

Sometimes people will say "edit: accidentally a word". That's them saying "edit: I accidentally forgot a word"

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Also, just to add to your confusion :)

Sometimes people will say "edit: accidentally a word". That's them saying "edit: I accidentally forgot a word"

(・о・). . . .OH!

Hahahaaa, I see I get it now! The joke I mean...with that particular edit.

That's lame that they temp-banned you for edits!

On old forums, we'd just put the little asterisks sign or different coloured font for edit...but using asterisks here on reddit style forums will make fonts bolds, italicizes, or do both. So, can't use that anymore... :(

[–]NutterButterFlutterStill waving into the void 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you put a slash before the special character, it will just show the character instead of formatting.

So if you type this:

\*edit

It will show as:

*edit

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Damn, that's good to know!

[–]fuck_reddit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love it here just for that reason. I don't know many radical feminists irl because of the social circles I'm in, but it's nice to be able to have engaging and thoughtful exchanges online, even though I don't agree on most of the primary claims that feminism makes. It also shows me that even if we disagree in our view of the world, we can still agree on practical actions, outcomes, policies, and ethics, especially regarding sexuality. I also like the gay/lesbian vibe we have where we support and discuss similarities and differences in an open way without pretending to speak for the other. So refreshing!

[–]justagaydude123 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Truly neutral places of discussion are being removed from the internet and are forced onto more niche platforms.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean... It is open to more different views, but this sub seems to be leaning heavily on the liberal/gc side. Although, it is better than the r/lgbt and anything (tra) similar bs where they'll just bomb your comment.