Men's IssuesA transwoman's objection to gay male spaces

submitted by JulienMayfair from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So you don’t think bi men should be allowed either?

I’m coming from a perspective as a very visibly trans person. Everyone is ho sees me knows I am a trans woman so I don’t think there is the disruption problem you suggested by entering a men’s space. The only way someone to pipe be uncomfortable would be if they believed trans women are women. Failing that what is the difference between my presence in the space and a drag queen?

It seems there is a duality that has to be somewhere. Either we are women and belong in women’s spaces which most here would object to or we are men and belong in men’s spaces which Ah wig seems to be objected to in this case. I know I personally wouldn’t feel safe in most men’s spaces since the likelihood of physical violence against me would be much higher, but you see ww what I am saying? If we are men to you it would be wrong to keep us out of men’s spaces and if we are women it would be wrong to keep us from those. We need one or the other.

[–]Willpoll 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well no. Bi men are still men loving men. If a trans woman is attracted to men wouldn't you consider that to be straight? Your conflating men's spaces with gay men's spaces. I have no problem with trans women in men's spaces. however trans women in gay men's spaces is a different matter entirely.

I'm coming from the perspective that if a trans woman is attracted to men and at least tries to present themselves as a woman, why would they think that gay men would be comfortable with someone who presents as a woman in their spaces. The main roadblock here is that you are conflating gay men's spaces with men's spaces in general. Spaces are created by people to feel, well safe and to meet people who are like each other. the typical reason for gay men's spaces is for men to go find other people attracted to men who consider themselves men. you said gay men's spaces in your first sentence but since then all you've been saying is men's spaces. Trans women in men's spaces are fine imo but to expect trans women who are attracted to men, someone who is effectively straight by societies standards into gay men's spaces is a tad over the line. sure you need men's or women's spaces but you don't need gay men's spaces especially when by your own logic your straight

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If a trans woman is attracted to men wouldn't you consider that to be straight?

Me? Yes,basically though it’s not so simple. I am biromantic and spent a long time living as an ostensibly gay man so I do sometimes still think of myself as gay even though I consider myself a woman. Though my personal history is a bit tangent. But I also think we should be in women’s spaces generally (or third spaces if they are available). The issue I’m pointing out is if you don’t want trans women in women’s spaces, like most here apparently, the how can you say that they shouldn’t be allowed in men’s spaces either? If you think we are men and shouldn’t be in women’s spaces then how can you argue that trans women who are attracted to men don’t belong in gay men’s spaces? Are we men or not to you?

[–]Willpoll 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To answer this question, well it's quite simple really. there is no single gender space for straight people. they wouldn't be straight if they looked for people who identified as the same gender. So there is no need for straight women's spaces at least when it comes to the dating scene. The only spaces available when it comes to straight dating are mixed spaces. if a trans woman is trying to date a man, then there is never a need for a single gender space. I can say that they shouldn't be allowed in gay men's spaces because it's a matter of mindset. If you are effectively straight and identify as a woman why is there a need for gay men's spaces when literally everything about straight dating and interaction is this third space??? the men vs women's spaces is an entirely different argument. And as for whether or not your men I am as of yet undecided for the most part on that. I am not saying you should be banned from men's spaces but that's sex segregation, not sexuality segregation