LifestyleHow to remain confident as a Gender Nonconforming guy?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.LGBDropTheT

This has been something that's been on my mind ever since I started becoming more vocal about how I don't believe in the whole Transgender Ideology and speaking up on certain realities of what caused it for specifically the HSTS types.

See I'm a feminine gay man myself who presents femininely as well. Here's what I mean to paint a picture of what I look like in my day to day life I do this not to show off but just to give a good example of what I mean by "Feminine/Non-conforming" because a lot of the time when I come across guys who claim to be feminine and non-conforming, I notice that as far as looks go, they still have a sense of soft masculinity to them in their appearance (I'd really just call these guys Androgynous looking) but then you have guys like me who well, yeah the look speaks for itself.

Anyway lately I've been running into self-confidence issues when I was reflecting on what my life has been like being the way I am and some of the harsh realities it ended up causing me. I try my best to speak out against Trans ideology because I genuinely do believe it's a bunch of nonsense and mental gymnastics wrapped in fetish, self-internalized homophobia, and narcissism. That when it comes specifically to the men, especially HSTS, they think that being feminine makes them women when womanhood is not defined by that, being an adult human female does which these men are not.

So I speak out in the sense that I want to help the younger generation see that they don't need to claim to be the opposite sex to be able to partake in masculinity or Femininity. And that guys can be feminine and actually look it too if they genuinely are interested in it which is also why I continue to just be myself. I don't want to see young people destroying their bodies with these drugs (HRT) and surgeries, especially before they turn 21. I just want gender nonconforming youth to see that your life doesn't have to end if you stay true to yourself and that you don't need to "trans out" to have a good life.

But lately I started reflecting on my own life and I started to feel like a hypocrite. Here I am trying to help uplift feminine gender nonconforming people but yet my own life has turned out fairly rough to say the least. I'm trying to show other feminine guys who are thinking they have to be trans to be accepted for who they are that they don't need to do that and yet I have nothing really in my own life to show that things did turn out okay.

In my own life, my being true to my feminine sensibilities and demeanor has definitely caused some negativity.

  • I'm the black sheep of my family. My parents begrudgingly try to accept me as I am but I know deep down they're disappointed in me and thinking why can't I just be "normal" and that the exterior family (for context, I'm adopted) think I'm weird and odd as well.
  • It's caused me to have no real genuine friendships. While I never had many friends to begin with what with being very shy and introverted growing up, when I started looking & dressing more feminine in appearance, the few friends I did have slowly faded away and stopped communicating with me. I still had a small handful but that was really hard to watch happen.
  • My Dating Life is pretty much dead. On Gay dating sites & apps, I'm practically a ghost. Gay men typically aren't attracted to femininity in men to begin with and if I ever do attract guys, they are usually closet-case bisexuals just fetishing me (either for my style or my race or both!). I've never been in a relationship and I've been out since 15 (I'm currently 29). There's just no question that me being a feminine presenting gay man has definitely impacted my dating llife significantly.
  • Just how society tends treat me. I've had stuff thrown at me, words shouted at me, taunts hurtled at me, and side eyes & glares directed at me. Now don't get me wrong, I've gotten some nice people as well but yeah...
  • I've gotten disrespected quite a bit at my job. I do tend to look feminine at work compared to my other male coworkers and some customers I can tell just think very little of me because of how I look. I remember having this older couple saying I shouldn't have my job because of how I look. But yeah usually it's other men who tend to be disrespectful to me.

The point is, it's clear that my being true to myself has definitely caused some isolation and the thing that really frustrates me even more is that I KNOW if I just came out and said that I was a transwoman, I probably would be getting a little more acceptance. Like I have a very sneaking suspicion that if I told my parents that I'm "trans", they would probably be more likely to accept me because to them, it'll "make sense" for why I am the way I am. That people in public wouldn't be as rude or discourteous towards me as much. That maybe my dating life would improve because I've had guys saying I should "transition" and I'd attract more guys (I'm not dumb though, a lot of it is still fetish crap + the mental gymnastics), and that I probably would've been able to hold onto to few friends I had.

And then of course when I started becoming more vocal about how I don't believe in Trans ideology, what small few friends I did have just cut me out altogether. And it's been this way for like a year going on 2 now and I'm just.. It has started to affect my self-confidence a bit, I can't lie about that. I genuinely want life to improve for gender nonconforming people because then this trans crap would stop but when I look at how my own life is turning out, it just makes me feel like such a hypocrite because of the struggles I've faced and continue to face today, even to the point of suicidal thoughts because I feel like my efforts just won't matter.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is to any other Gender nonconforming men and women here, how do you keep pushing on? Am I wrong to feel the way I do? And I'm sorry it was such a long read.

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[–]LushCanopy 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Everyone is so focused on the transgender debate (and fighting for non-issues like neo pronouns) that we are losing sight of the original fight/purpose of the gay rights movement, which is the acceptance of people who do not conform to strict gender norms. Gender ideology has done a lot of harm by reinforcing those gender roles and by making GNC people feel like they were "born in the wrong body".

Unfortunately there is still a long road ahead in terms of acceptance, so we need more people like you to set an example. Even if your life is far from perfect, at least you can say that you stayed true to yourself. Know that your existence will inspire people (whether it's people you know personally or strangers on the street) to do the same. Also, like-minded people definitely exist, but it might take some time before you find them.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I honestly feel like we were actually making progress in the early 2000s but then when this whole trans crap reared it's ugly head into the mainstream, it set back the progress being made a decade back. Look at what's happening with GNC kids, some are being told they are trans and even rushed to "Gender Clinics" to get diagnosed as Trans. In a way it feels like freaking conversion therapy only they're setting these kids up to chase an unobtainable fantasy.

Even if your life is far from perfect, at least you can say that you stayed true to yourself. Know that your existence will inspire people (whether it's people you know personally or strangers on the street) to do the same. Also, like-minded people definitely exist, but it might take some time before you find them.

I can't ever see myself changing into something I'm not, I'm so happy with the way I am, I really am. It's just that it's hard that people have such a problem with GNC people, especially GNC men... I want to stay myself and continue to age and show that it's totally possible to still be you without being delusional but I feel like if I try to be more vocal about this kinda stuff, people will try to use my difficult life struggles as a means to put me down and say I'm just deluding myself and am not worth listening to because my life isn't as perfect or well-put together as "normal" people or even "Trans" people.

[–]artetolife 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Fitting in and dating is always hard when you are gay. I wish I was a flamboyant GNC guy instead of a socially awkward nerd so at least I could tell the younger gays it's okay to be that way instead of getting sucked into the "egg" cult. You should have confidence that what you're doing by speaking up is really important.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Believe me being a feminine GNC guy can be pretty tough when it feels like you're outnumbered by the trans cult... But I get what you mean...

[–]Tikiri 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi, I’m a straight woman and I hope it’s okay for me to respond. I don’t know anything about being a g.n.c. gay person, but I DO know what it’s like to be a shy, introverted (possibly on the ASD spectrum but not certain in any way) brown person, and how difficult that can be in life. I too went through life hardly having any friends, romantic relationships etc. At times it was horribly lonely and I suffered from depression many times as a result. But ... in time I did find friends, as well as people who thought/felt the same as me. It may take time for you to do that (or not - you may meet like-minded people anytime!), but DON’T LOSE HOPE! Honestly, if I could go back and tell my younger self that my life would have been so much easier.

Do you have hobbies, interests, etc. (doesn’t matter how offbeat/weird/etc.) that you’re really into? Anything like books, movies, crafts, fandoms etc.? Hiking? Knitting? Ghost hunting?? I’m serious (that was one of my things)😂 Check online and see if there are groups for that you could join. I made quite a few friends that way. I know nowadays everything seems to be online, but many times those groups have i.r.l. get-togethers too.

And just BE YOURSELF. You seem like a caring, sensitive, together person. DON’T change that just to suit someone else’s agenda! As for your family, can you possibly talk to them, have a conversation about who you are and what you believe in? Any extended family you can do that with? You may be surprised at what they really think/feel ... and they may be surprised by what you think/feel too!

My advice would be to just relentlessly look for people, online and i.r.l., that are on the same “wavelength” as you. Just don’t give up no matter how hard and hopeless it may seem. I know that sounds simplistic, but it’s really the one thing I have learned in my (much older than you😄) life.

[–]Eurowoman24 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

maybe finding gnc icons would help, David bowie is one I can think of off the top of my head. Never pretended to be a woman either.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh I actually had one icon in mind and that was the late Pete Burns from Dead or Alive. Despite the unfortunate face surgery he had that ended up ruining his face, he still stayed true to himself and rocked his feminine GNC look till death did him part. And even more when people started saying that he was trans around 2009, he came out and said this

"I'm just Pete." He also stated that he always identified himself as male and never had intentions of being a woman: "It freaks me that someone could think I was a woman. Don't get me wrong – I love women; I love men, too, and I'm very proud to be a man."

Total love moment to hear him say that and he's someone I think of when I'm feeling down and doubting myself. He had a rough life too and unfortunately he's no longer here but to see that he stuck with what he liked to look like was inspiring. But aside from him I can't think of any other GNC guy who stuck that way. Boy George ended up ditching his feminine look for a soft masculine style.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

From one gender-nonconforming person to another with the same skin colour as yours(though I am a woman), it's not easy mate...and I don't want to sugarcoat it either.

I used to be EXTREMELY masculine, and my face doesn't help. I have a big ass aztec looking nose that could poke someone's eye out, bushy caterpillar eyebrowes, rather tall(somewhere around 178cm or so..) and whenever I dressed in baggy clothes and wear my hair short, people mistake me as a "boy" each time, which sucked. I used to weight lift too to bulk up, that didn't help either.

Before, I used to "like" being mistaken as a boy, but that was back when I first started transitioning long ago(thought was lesbian, tried to transition to be "normal") Except, during that time I would get bullied getting called the t-word and f-word.

Then, I woke up when I became an adult, left abusive household. I tried to be the "opposite" as I was and went completely feminine. It was fun for a while, realized I liked men apart from women(used to want to BE like a man, now I want to ALSO be with a man), but...I didn't feel like myself...that was in college. Left college, worked in real world, went back to masculine style, short pixie haircut, men's pants, backwards hats, etc(I was young lol). Never corrected people when they called me a boy but felt veeerrry awkward because I accepted that I am a female. People...talked to me a certain way and insulted me like they would a man...

Came to where I am now, partner is a man. I struggle because I feel a bit more comfort in men's clothes...I wear my man's gear sometimes. It's nice...I kept my hair long though, since he likes it and at least it saves money on haircuts. Have curly ass hair too, i kinda dig it. Got a grungey caveman look going on. My partner met me with short-ish hair(close to chin length maybe shorter) and wearing...somewhat...masculine clothes that he thought I was gay until I asked him out for drinks lol and we were in a relationship since...

Sorry I sound like a debbie downer. I just want to say I can relate....and just keep doing you! Fuck those rude ass people. I just wear whatever I feel like wearing and do whatever I like to do(ex. I want to go back to weightlifting).

BUT I know it can be harder for men in that regard...being out and feminine. My family is deep in what we call in my language "male chauvinism". They will not even help hold mother's purse or help with "girly" things(ex. Helping to buy pads for whatever reason, my man did when I was pregnant, sorry for TMI). One of my brothers and dad are "too macho" to buy my son baby thibgs. They ask me "what should we get [son's name] for the holiday?" I tell them just diapers and wipes always help. They say it's too hard and said they'll give me money instead...okay...my mother say while growing up my father never changed our diapers.

Ah, I did want to mention there is a YouTuber who's a gay and feminine men called MilesJai but...he's entered into the "queer" culture. Used to like him back then, but..yeah.

Sorry for much ramble, I just want to let you know that I can relate to some of the things you mentioned...and I know it's not easy. But keep doing you and fuck the rest. You do not need to change to conform to what they want you to do.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you for sharing your experience, seems like quite the ride you've been on but it was nice to read. I just wish that it didn't have to be that way. It felt like we were on the way to progress with GNC people being more accepted and then this Trans crap just had to happen and set back the progress that was being made at least a few years to a decade back because now you're seeing these stories of GNC kids being thought of as trans, heck some parents are even rushing their GNC kids to "Gender clinics" to get diagnosed as "trans". It's just sad to see and I want to keep being myself and at least show that you don't need to buy into that junk science to be you. But just noticing how difficult my own life has been navigating as a feminne man, it can really get to me sometimes.

Ah, I did want to mention there is a YouTuber who's a gay and feminine men called MilesJai but...he's entered into the "queer" culture. Used to like him back then, but..yeah.

Oh God Miels Jai. Yes, I know this guy and I used to be a big fan of his back then because he was an unapologetic feminine, GNC man who never called himself anything other than a man back then but then come 2016 and he makes that video where he says he "identifies" as "Genderqueer" and my heart just sank. He too is slowly falling victim to this stupid Gender ideology nonsense. Just watch, I'm not gonna be surprised if he "comes out" as a "Transwoman" in a few years...

See this happened with another guy who I really looked up to back then who was also a Youtuber. His name was Misty Eyes on YouTube and he was a drag queen but also talked about his life as a feminine man and some of the struggles he went through. He was a lot older than me and I looked up to him because to my 23-24 year old self, it was so cool to see an older feminine guy (I think he was in his mid 30s at the time) but then a few years later, he disappeared for awhile and then when he came back, he made his announcement and claimed that he was a "Transwoman" all along and this just really stung so much. What was worse was when he was explaining why he felt that way claiming he always "felt like a girl" because he liked feminine things like Easy Bake Oven and Barbies and makeup as a little boy and would put long towels on his head and pretend it was his hair and say he was a girl. And when he told his mom, she said "she always knew that he was a girl" and I was just. I was so aggravated, I was so annoyed and frustrated. Hearing him think that because he loved being feminine even at a young age meant that he was a woman.

And then he ended up getting a "straight" boyfriend (he really isn't, the way he described it sounds like any other closet case bisexual) and i just had to stop watching him. But I was devastated to say the least...

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hey thanks. Yes, this TRA nonsense has made it harder for gender nonconforming folks to be honest...

It sucks that trans people are trying to redefine everything FOR us. They are not helping AGAINST discrimation, it seems they are for it.

Basically, it's much like how it was back then---if you boyish girl or girly boy, they want you to correct your personality/behaviour to fit mold. Now, TRAs are doing ALMOST the same EXCEPT, now they say if you're a boyish girl or girly boy, you NEED to change your body to match your personality, it's messed up.

I honestly feel where you are coming from. I feel like I "toned down" my masculinty to fit the mold a bit...But now I have a more androgynous look. I sometimes wonder if I like things merely because society or the people around me told me too...in my group of friends back in junior high, I was always pressured to be the "boy" out of the group of girls. I always felt out of place. They try give me labels for what I am and one of those labels was "genderfluid". I thought that sounded really silly...I get more positive attention when I dress feminine, but I don't feel particuarly comfortable. When I dress masculine...I have either mix feelings of feeling great or self hating...so androgynous(leaning masculine) has been the happy medium for now...Annnd my partner is a straight man so...uh..yeah.

What?!? I am really disappointed he's using the "genderqueer" lingo...I looked him up the other day, and say him modeling for trans underwear(with a sports bra on)?! It had the trans flag colours...you're right, it's only a matter of time he says he's actually a transwoman geez...

It's sad that many people are thinking they have to transition to BE themselves. Hopefully people like Miles Jai and Misty Eyes snap out of it... It's a bit insulting that Misty Eyes things thst being a "female" is playing with Easy Bake Oven, barbie and make up. So, do they think I male because I like tech and sports and swear like sailor? That just (stupid) stereotype. That dont make me "male".

Speaking of YouTuberd there was this other YouTube channrl I used to follow, her name was ShunTara, but she suddenly went from FtM out of nowhere and left YouTube...I used to be obsessed with this japanese rock style called "visual kei" haha. I was...into punk back thrn too lol. It's been awhile. I think the aethestics are still nice tho, I just don't wear the full get up or anything. Kinda...lazy due to pandemic...styles change, but I digress. I guess she "felt like a boy" and left YouTube??? I can't remember... I unsubscribed long ago after she transitioned. I just...yeah.

LOL no man is straight if he goes with a trans "woman". Heck no!

To be honest...once this trans movement dies down or goes away...I think people would be more accepting of the gender non conforming folks. I think the trans movement was a way to "normalize" our kind of people. I thought I had to transition for being too "boyish" or "manly" because it's not "normal".

Once people start accepting who they are...they might be more acceptance for us...

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It sucks that trans people are trying to redefine everything FOR us. They are not helping AGAINST discrimation, it seems they are for it.

They really are and their entitlement and narcissism is blinding them to that fact. I think they actualyl want discrimination so they can have more oppression points for it.

Basically, it's much like how it was back then---if you boyish girl or girly boy, they want you to correct your personality/behaviour to fit mold. Now, TRAs are doing ALMOST the same EXCEPT, now they say if you're a boyish girl or girly boy, you NEED to change your body to match your personality, it's messed up.

Yeah I went through that kind of thing as well. My parents weren't as strict compared to others but I do remember being a little boy in the 90s and whenever I expressed interested in something feminine, my father would be very uncomfortable with it and would kindly reprimand me for it. Like he didn't hit me or anything but he said that oh so common phrase of "That's for girls, not boys". And you're exactly right, the TRAs are literally doing the same thing only in reverse where like you said, any child who breaks gender norms must transition or else they will commit suicide lol

I honestly feel where you are coming from. I feel like I "toned down" my masculinty to fit the mold a bit...But now I have a more androgynous look. I sometimes wonder if I like things merely because society or the people around me told me too...in my group of friends back in junior high, I was always pressured to be the "boy" out of the group of girls. I always felt out of place. They try give me labels for what I am and one of those labels was "genderfluid". I thought that sounded really silly...I get more positive attention when I dress feminine, but I don't feel particuarly comfortable. When I dress masculine...I have either mix feelings of feeling great or self hating...so androgynous(leaning masculine) has been the happy medium for now...Annnd my partner is a straight man so...uh..yeah.

That's interesting to read and I'm sorry that you were you put in that awkard position. It's like why couldn't they just let you be? But I understand it, especially when you said you got more positive attention when you dressed feminine. I had similar experiences though on the opposite end. Like I remember when I started dressing more feminine and my parents being not too thrilled about it but for my stepmom's mothers church ceremony, I just wore a masculine "Normal" man attire of wearing a suit after my dad kept telling me to "look normal" that day and the comment I got from people was that I "Look better this way". It definitely made me uncomfortable because I had to hear that plus be uncomfortable wearing something I don't like on myself when I'd rather be wearing a feminine style ensemble (That I could've totally made look refined and classy but yet I'd still stick out regardless...). Point is, I totally understand.

What?!? I am really disappointed he's using the "genderqueer" lingo...I looked him up the other day, and say him modeling for trans underwear(with a sports bra on)?! It had the trans flag colours...you're right, it's only a matter of time he says he's actually a transwoman geez...

Oh god see I didn't even know he was doing that (the modeling for "trans underwear"). It's just so fucking depressing to watch this happen to someone who was so bold and unapologetic in looking the way HE wanted to look and not caring what people think. But I already had some suspicions because in one of his videos where he did talk about his dating life (his "Hoe phase"), he did mention how difficult it was for him to find guys who were into him, a relatable struggle for us gay feminine men and that he even on a few occasions tried to force himself to be more masculine to get dates but in the concluded that he wanted to just be himself. I was proud of him at the time but now I know that it might have affected his self-esteem more than he let on. I think he's about 3 years younger than me and has never been in a relationship neither and I know that it might bother him a bit which I understand. But just watch, I won't be surprised that as soon as he hits 30, he may just very well come out and claim that he is a transwoman... I really hope I'm wrong but I just see this happening.

It's sad that many people are thinking they have to transition to BE themselves. Hopefully people like Miles Jai and Misty Eyes snap out of it... It's a bit insulting that Misty Eyes things thst being a "female" is playing with Easy Bake Oven, barbie and make up. So, do they think I male because I like tech and sports and swear like sailor? That just (stupid) stereotype. That dont make me "male".

Like I said, I really hope so as well. Misty Eyez came out as "trans" at I think 35 or 37 and he's been this way since then. I'm not sure if he'll ever snap back to reality. And yeah but more annoying is that he said he "has the spirit of a female" and I'm just like "What the fuck does that even mean??"

So, do they think I male because I like tech and sports and swear like sailor? That just (stupid) stereotype.

They would probably say something like "Oh you might be trans. How does your GENDER make you feel?" (or some nonsense like that lol)

Speaking of YouTuberd there was this other YouTube channrl I used to follow, her name was ShunTara, but she suddenly went from FtM out of nowhere and left YouTube...I used to be obsessed with this japanese rock style called "visual kei" haha. I was...into punk back thrn too lol. It's been awhile. I think the aethestics are still nice tho, I just don't wear the full get up or anything. Kinda...lazy due to pandemic...styles change, but I digress. I guess she "felt like a boy" and left YouTube??? I can't remember... I unsubscribed long ago after she transitioned. I just...yeah.

AHHHH I remember shunTara too! I watched a few of her videos because I liked her hairstyles and how she did more alternative-like fashion. Yeah I remember that video where she came out as "FTM" and my heart sank for her as well, I think that was her last video too wasn't it? That was around the time I peak transed which made it so awkward lol. But yeah she just up and disappeared like you said.

But since you mentioned Visual Kei (which I used to be into as well, still like it just not as obsessed like I was in high school lol) but thank god that Mana Sama from Malice Mizer hasn't come out as "Trans", at least that I'm aware of. He hasn't been in the public eye for years and he doesn't seem to have any social media so it's hard to see how he's doing these days but I pray he's still the same and not claiming trans status for liking to look feminine.

LOL no man is straight if he goes with a trans "woman". Heck no! ' Yep, it's just delusional Bisexual men who don't want to admit they can find another man attractive lol That men can pull of femininity as well just like women can pull of masculinity lol.

To be honest...once this trans movement dies down or goes away...I think people would be more accepting of the gender non conforming folks. I think the trans movement was a way to "normalize" our kind of people. I thought I had to transition for being too "boyish" or "manly" because it's not "normal".

I really hope you're right. Like I said, we were on the verge of true progress in the 90s to the early 2000s before this trans stuff barged it's ugly head in and messed things up. I'm sure this trans bubble will have to pop eventually. It'll just need to be a big event that just peak trans most people. But yeah if more people just accept who they are, we should be able to get more acceptance, at least here in the West anyway.

[–]HelloMomo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Do the gay men around these parts have any discord groups or anything? Cause if you guys haven't done that yet, I think you guys should make one. On the lesbian side of things, I recently joined a few discord groups and it's nice, and helps me feel less alone (especially in this time of covid!)

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm not sure if there are any where I live. I'm too afraid to join Gay groups ever since I became gender critical because I've been branded "transphobic" in Reddit's Gay groups...

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Most of the gay discord servers are like that too on the surface. I don't see too much trans pandering going on generally in the chats but they usually have stated rule that everything is "inclusive"

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right... I just feel like it's hard to be open about this kinda stuff in gay spaces because the trans cult has taken over most of them.

[–]HelloMomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What I mean is that the men from s/LGBDropTheT (a demographic that's not into "inclusive" shit) should start a discord group where you guys can chitchat with each other.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh. Yeah I think that would be good to try.

[–]divingrightintowork 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I shared your post with a friend, I'm hoping they may have some insight, we'll see! That said a lot of people think life feels super hard at 21! I was way happier at 31 than at 21! Life was a lot easier, things made sense, maybe dating and relationships isn't a right now thing... Maybe focus on other interests and activities, be it Contra dancing or blues dancing (those spaces tend to be really accepting), arts, hobbies, dance groups, etc. and make deeper interest based relationships through those things - maybe some will turn into something else. Also maybe look for other souls that are a bit more like yourself, and see how that works? I knew a twiny duo that ended up dating and being a super cute couple, in my city.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm actually 29, not 21 lol But yeah I generally do just that. I focus on my art and it helps but there are days where I start to think about all this kinda stuff and it does bring me down a bit, especially when I have to go to work and continue to deal with some customers who treat me "less than" (and I know it's because of how I look because they don't act that way towards my other guy coworkers who do look masculine/"normal").

Also maybe look for other souls that are a bit more like yourself, and see how that works?

See I've tried but where I live, it's like overrun with these trans-identified men and women, I can't find other feminine guys like myself who aren't involved in the gender nonsense. I've only come across one Lesbian who doesn't buy into the trans stuff but she eventually moved away...

[–]MiaXiang 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

29 is hard too! It tends to get better after that.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I really hope so lol Like I mentioned in my opening post, I genuinely like myself, it's just the circumstances that I'm struggling with lol

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Aww - hopefully my friend will reach out on insta -let me know if that's ok or not (though I can't promise she will) - that said I do know a couple of effeminate gay men who kept rocking that into their 30s and seemed to have done ok - as for work stuff and maybe other days too - it looks like you really glam up things and don't take it the wrong way but maybe sometimes just find some sort of like "Minimal look," that only takes 5 minutes of prep time or something, like no styling and comfy sports wear or something. Play around with different expressions, play around with code switching and see how that goes. It doesn't make you less-you, but sometimes it can make your life easier to tailor yourself to the situation (don't take that the wrong way I hope. It isn't meant that way). What happens when you present more andro, or lazy masc, or lazy femme?

I don't know where you are so it's hard to suggest specific social scenes but I've managed to cultivate a pretty diverse friend group in my area in the North East - big cities are easier.

It's definitely hard to escape the trans-sanity, I downplay my beliefs or don't share them with a lot of friends - as I don't need my friends to all have the same beliefs as me (trust me I've unfollowed tons of people on Facebook, I don't like them less and we still hang out and talk, I just don't need to see them screaming about gender nonesense or what an awful person JK is).

What is your art? What other hobbies do you have? Have you ever looked at meetups for things where gender/sex isn't really going to be relevant?

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

that said I do know a couple of effeminate gay men who kept rocking that into their 30s and seemed to have done ok

I'm actually not too worried about aging into my 30s and thinking I have to give up my style because I've seen plenty of examples to help transition a style while still keeping it "you" sortaspeak.

as for work stuff and maybe other days too - it looks like you really glam up things and don't take it the wrong way but maybe sometimes just find some sort of like "Minimal look," that only takes 5 minutes of prep time or something, like no styling and comfy sports wear or something.

If you're talking about in the context of my work, I don't always "glam" up. It's kinda hard to explain unless you mean by me wearing my necklaces and my waist belt which are usually my every day accessories. Like honestly as far as a non work outfits goes, somewthing like this or this (Only without the vest would be what I call casual in the context of my own style]

And on the on the contrary it really doesn't take me that long to get ready but that's probably because I've dressing the way I do for a long time now lol. Still though, while I get what you're saying, it still does resort to me having to subdue myself and again, please don't take this as a way of me saying you're telling me not to be myself, I'm very aware of what you mean but see, this kinda thing does play into how this "Transwoman" stuff cna happen.

Like I know you said you have a more androgynous-masculine style and it's the kind of style you like and that's cool. But then there are guys like me who prefer having a more feminine style which will always be seen as more extreme than a woman who prefers to dress in a more masculine manner. So for some guys who desperately want to present in a feminine way, they'll feel like they must be women in order to look the way they want without getitng judged because women can look as feminine as they want and receive not much backlash and guys like myself want that freedom because we just want to do with androgynous/masculine women do only on the opposite end. I hope this makes sense.

And again, I don't always look "glam" which I think you are referencing more of my lace ensembles that incorporate my lace kimono and shawl but still, my toned down looks still do stand out because I hate wearing "Men's clothing", I hate baggy looks on myself and I like how "women's" clothing fit my frame. Like to expand it...

hat happens when you present more andro, or lazy masc, or lazy femme?

I can't speak on Masculine because I hate the masculine style on myself but when I do "lazy femme", it's usually just my sweaters with some skinny jeans, bell bottoms, or boot cut trousers (mind you 99% of my wardrobe is "women's" clothing), my waist belt (though not always), and my boots, flip flops, or black sneakers (usually worn with my bells or boot cut trousers, never skinny jeans lol). Oh and my necklace though like the waist belt, not always.

Point is, I don't always dress eccentric but even my casual looks can still be seen as "eccentric" since it's form fitting clothing on a guy whereas most male fashion is looser or not as form fitting.

It's definitely hard to escape the trans-sanity, I downplay my beliefs or don't share them with a lot of friends - as I don't need my friends to all have the same beliefs as me (trust me I've unfollowed tons of people on Facebook, I don't like them less and we still hang out and talk, I just don't need to see them screaming about gender nonesense or what an awful person JK is).

I see. Yeah I usually never even talk about the gender stuff on my Facebook. The only time I did was when I came out in support of JK Rowling & Maya Forstater which was when I came out saying that I don't buy into Transgender ideology. Aside from that, I can't recall ever speaking up on it there. And the only person in my public life who knows my views is my Gay fraternal twin brother and yeah, I can see he definitely doesn't like my views because whenever he brings up Blaire White who he's a big fan of, I just call him by male pronouns and he doesn't like that but yeah, that's really the extent.

But yeah, I don't need all friends to agree with me on it but I just don't want people telling me hut like you, I just don't want to hear people bitching about JK Rowling or Gender crap which is why I'm not as active on Facebook these days lol.

What is your art? What other hobbies do you have? Have you ever looked at meetups for things where gender/sex isn't really going to be relevant?

Well see my hobbies are geeky. With art, I'm mostly into animation and character design so I mostly do work on that (character design, don't know much about animation yet lol). My other hobbies include playing video games (Retro gamer though, I'm not much of an online player), and listening to music or watching movies. I admit that I've always been pretty introverted.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

First, I'm a tomboy/androgynous. Not a hypocritical "GNC," but I just get over with it and keep moving forward if that makes sense. I don't really have much friends, but one, and my family isn't really into the whole trans ideology either. They're more polite about it tho. Although, I feel like I'm just gonna have to get with the times sooner or later. I can't fight TRAs if I'm a hypocrite, but the only people who aren't into gc or tra bullshit 100% are ultra conservatives or anti-LGB(T)ish... Which should be self explanatory.

And no, nothing wrong with how you feel. It's perfectly justifiable. When I was younger, I had a break down due to feeling that it would be better for me to become a "boy," especially a "straight boy" (my attraction to other women wasn't welcomed by myself at that age), than be a tomboy/androgynous. Thankfully, my mom put her foot down.

You just gotta stay stronger and keep pushing forward.

Edit: added words

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

First, I'm a tomboy/androgynous. Not a hypocritical "GNC," but I just get over with it and keep moving forward if that makes sense. I don't really have much friends, but one, and my family isn't really into the whole trans ideology either. They're more polite about it tho. Although, I feel like I'm just gonna have to get with the times sooner or later. I can't fight TRAs if I'm a hypocrite, but the only people who aren't into gc or tra bullshit 100% are ultra conservatives or close to it... Which should be self explanatory.

I can understand. But see, I'd rather just have one friend who totally got me and I got them then having a whole group but these days it just seems almost impossible to find because of the social climate circling around LGB (because of the freaking T engulfing everything). And I think I may not have been clear when I said "hypocritical". The thing I mean by me being "hypocritical" is me trying to uplift and tell other feminine guys that life will be okay if they remain true to themselves but yet in my own personal life, I'm still struggling with things that do relate to me being a feminine guy. So I can't help but feel like people would try to twist my words around if they saw me trying to say that there's nothing wrong with being a feminine guy but then highlight all the problems that have arose in my life because of my feminine, GNC sensibilities.

Although, I feel like I'm just gonna have to get with the times sooner or later.

Please tell me that you don't mean joining the cult and becoming a transman...

I can't fight TRAs if I'm a hypocrite

See I don't wanna fight neither. Some of them are so neck deep in the trans crap that they can't see beyond their fetish and I don't want to entertain these people anymore. My goal is just to post a few videos about being a feminine GNC man, the struggles that can come with it and then reassurance that we can push on and be happy in some way. I've seen a few masculine/androgynous women do this on YouTube and the comments they get from other young women (especially lesbians) and how they thanked them for speaking up about issues related to them and even helped them see that they aren't trans all along. I feel that the GNC feminine guys need this and I don't see any GNC guys doing this so I figured I'd take the reigns and try to open the gates. I would've said Miles Jai would be good for this but he's slowly getting on with the Gender ideology nonsense by calling himself "Genderqueer" so no, I think someone like me could help.

but the only people who aren't into gc or tra bullshit 100% are ultra conservatives

Yeah that seems to be the case but I think that if more of us do speak out and appear, we can show people that you don't have to be a conservative to not support or believe Trans ideology. Like most LGBDropTheT people here aren't even conservative, we just all know that trans ideology is nonsense.

[–]BiHorror 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

And I think I may not have been clear when I said "hypocritical". The thing I mean by me being "hypocritical" is me trying to uplift and tell other feminine guys that life will be okay if they remain true to themselves but yet in my own personal life, I'm still struggling with things that do relate to me being a feminine guy.

Oh no I wasn't referring to you as hypocritical for that. I was just referring to the terminology in general. I don't see you as hypocritical for your background and trying to uplift others. If anything, it goes to show that people, regardless of background, can be "GNC" without needing to think that they might and should become trans.

Please tell me that you don't mean joining the cult and becoming a transman...

No, I'm not becoming a transman or anything of the sort. I meant like, becoming with the times as in "accepting" or teaching myself to "accept" these people. With all the support, they're getting, it starts getting tiring fighting back when people, especially strangers, start piling on you for wrong thought. I just teach myself to shut up and just like"accept" it or something. Pretty sure I would make a horrible transman tho tbh.

I would've said Miles Jai would be good for this but he's slowly getting on with the Gender ideology nonsense by calling himself "Genderqueer" so no, I think someone like me could help

Damn, that's a shame. Used to watch him, guess it's a good thing I stopped. Good on you for wanting to help with that.

Yeah that seems to be the case but I think that if more of us do speak out and appear, we can show people that you don't have to be a conservative to not support or believe Trans ideology. Like most LGBDropTheT people here aren't even conservative, we just all know that trans ideology is nonsense.

True, but even normal conservatives seem to be getting in. Which is why I said ultra conservatives... There's also anti LGB(T) and feminism but that right there (along w/ ultra conservatives) is definitely a giant self explanatory. Since the whole grouping LGB and TQ together, everything TQ does and the hatred/disgust at them gets thrown at LGB. It's like, they're using TQ as ammo against LGB and non-liberal feminists now.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh no I wasn't referring to you as hypocritical for that. I was just referring to the terminology in general. I don't see you as hypocritical for your background and trying to uplift others. If anything, it goes to show that people, regardless of background, can be "GNC" without needing to think that they might and should become trans.

Ah okay, I guess when you say it like that it doesn't sound all that bad since everyone's experiences can differ.

No, I'm not becoming a transman or anything of the sort. I meant like, becoming with the times as in "accepting" or teaching myself to "accept" these people. With all the support, they're getting, it starts getting tiring fighting back when people, especially strangers, start piling on you for wrong thought. I just teach myself to shut up and just like"accept" it or something. Pretty sure I would make a horrible transman tho tbh.

Eugh I just don't think I can do that because I know it's a lie, I know all this Trans stuff is not real but I get why you feel that way. It seems like people are just not using common sense anymore and are just going along with this insanity because they don't want to critically think. But yeah after getting dumped by people who I thought were my friends when I came out as Gender critical and find myself missing talking with them and how many people are acting like the novel 1984 with that stupid mantra of "Transwomen are women"... I just can see why some would throw in the towel.

Damn, that's a shame. Used to watch him, guess it's a good thing I stopped. Good on you for wanting to help with that.

Yeah he did this in 2016. He still hasn't called himself a transwoman or anything but seeing how deep he's getting into the gender cult, it's only a matter of time before he becomes another statistic.

True, but even normal conservatives seem to be getting in. Which is why I said ultra conservatives... There's also anti LGB(T) and feminism but that right there (along w/ ultra conservatives) is definitely a giant self explanatory. Since the whole grouping LGB and TQ together, everything TQ does and the hatred/disgust at them gets thrown at LGB. It's like, they're using TQ as ammo against LGB and non-liberal feminists now.

Oh... Yeah that's true that whenever the TQ does something stupid or annoying, the LGB get blamed when we have nothing to do with trans ideology...

[–]BiHorror 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah okay, I guess when you say it like that it doesn't sound all that bad since everyone's experiences can differ

Yeah! So, apologies if you thought I was going for the background thing. It was more of terminology related. I also didn't have a 100% go-happy background, but different reasons. Family accepting but more of interalized stuff mixed with adhd and barely having any role models (unless they were masculine males).

Eugh I just don't think I can do that because I know it's a lie, I know all this Trans stuff is not real but I get why you feel that way. It seems like people are just not using common sense anymore and are just going along with this insanity because they don't want to critically think. But yeah after getting dumped by people who I thought were my friends when I came out as Gender critical and find myself missing talking with them and how many people are acting like the novel 1984 with that stupid mantra of "Transwomen are women"... I just can see why some would throw in the towel

True, although I'm not GC and do think a type of "trans" exist but as a mental disorder (and I wouldn't call them trans either but those afflicted w/ sex dysphoria).Which wouldn't be surprising, as anything can be possible. I still don't with agree with "transitioning" as treatment. Especially when you read up on some stories of (HS)TS, who while grateful their dysphoria has been alleviated, they wish they were normal to begin with. I think when it comes to society, why some people are so quick to be "accepting" of it is due to the whole bullshit that disagreement = you're probably a far right or some shit (thus deserve to be "canceled" which does affect people's lives, especially when they get death/rape threats). It's considered the "good" thing to be. All accepting and "open minded" to the point where your brain falls out.

Yeah he did this in 2016. He still hasn't called himself a transwoman or anything but seeing how deep he's getting into the gender cult, it's only a matter of time before he becomes another statistic

Probably, or hopefully he snaps out of it in time. While it shouldn't be the realization of it aka what would make him wake up (peak), that probably be the day when he says the very "wrong" thing and they snap at him for it. Shit, they snap at each other for saying something that isn't 100% aligned with their ideology.

Oh... Yeah that's true that whenever the TQ does something stupid or annoying, the LGB get blamed when we have nothing to do with trans ideology

Yep, shit been going wild. Doesn't help that they're in contribute to what's making acceptance rates go down. Even more insulting when there's LGBs (and straights) alongside them!

× Heh... You might have gotten two replies from me, with the 1st being deleted, it was due to me completely messing up w/ the quotes. So, apologies again.

[–]MiaXiang 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have 100% respect for people fearlessly break gender 'norms'. Society is still WAY behind you and that's not easy. But it matters, being true to yourself matters and benefits more than just yourself. You look great, btw.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I know that there is still a lot of work to do to help steer society on a path of true progress to where it doesn't treat GNC men and women like absolute dregs. If the trans crap wasn't a thing, we'd probably be closer than now since all these "transwomen" and "transmen" are just nonconforming men and women that could've helped be the change we needed to continue the progress set since the 90s but nope.. And aw thank you lol

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Is there much of a Goth community in your area? I miss the 80s style Goths. Proud of you for not being bullied into Trans Conversion.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm not sure if there is one but I'm very scared of joining one because of my views. I had a few Goth friends who I was friends with on YouTube/Facebook that I met in a Facebook Goth group and as soon as I came out about not believing in Trans ideology, most of them with the exception of one all up and left me. I then got blocked from the Goth Facebook group that I was a part of and when I asked my one friend who did stick with me why that happened since she knew the moderator, she said it was because they don't "Accept problematic people or bigots". And on the Reddit Goth page, word got out there that I'm this awful "transphobe" and I got blocked by a few people there as well. I still participate in discussions but someone posted one of my YouTube videos there and I saw some people leaving comments on it saying things like "You know that guy is a full-blown transphobe right?" or "I don't care what a bigot has to say" and just things like that.

So yeah, I'm especially scared of trying to talk with other Goth people now because so many of them seem to be drinking the Trans kool-aid...

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That makes me so sad. Goth was totally about breaking gender stereotypes, acceptance of gay people, and bringing all these over the top fashionable people together through music back in the 80s when I had Goth friends. This Trans Demands stuff was unheard of. I wish I could send you back thru time to the early 80s when all the best bands were still playing and Woke didn't exist. Maybe seek out 80s Nights gatherings and "elder Goths" -- I'm sure some of my own Gen X are playing along with Woke insanity, but not the majority. Of course you SHOULD be able to have friends your own age, but I fear everyone under 30 is insane at this point, certainly those who consider themselves "alternative." Reddit and facebook are quite horrible places overall. Anyone who uses the word "problematic" (and they aren't making fun of those who do at the time) --- run! That's a warning signal right there. PS I just checked out your YT channel. I like your cartoon self! I don't know how you wear wigs -- my head sweats something fierce. I envy it working for you as it looks cool. And if you don't already know them, I was really into the Virgin Prunes back in the 80s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgoJn5SUa_4&ab_channel=lelliesandremains

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I know, I read some stories from other people who were around in the Goth scene during the 80s and how freeing it felt to not be confined with their self-expression and people were not calling themselves "Trans" or whatever, just men growing their hair out longer and wearing makeup and dresses and being happy and comfortable while the women would cut their hair short and wear more masculine styles with a dark flair and it was just... I wish I could've joined in in that fun. Heck Rozz Williams is one of my inspirations because he was a feminine GNC man who wore dresses and makeup and long hair yet never called himself a woman for doing it. It's what made me so pissed when I saw some people trying to claim that he was a trans icon (like seriously....). But no, aside from the music being pretty nice even though I leaned more into Second Wave Goth with bands like London After Midnight, Rosetta Stone, Requiem in White, and a few others, I loved how free and experimental the 80s were when it came to people breaking fashion roles.

I wouldn't mind talking with some Gen X'ers as I tend to like a lot of music and media from the 90s haha but yeah, I just don't want to get dog-piled on for not being "woke" with the trans crap because I genuinely think it's nonsense but unfortunately like you said, most people who call themselves "Alternative" are exactly these types and to them, I'm like Hitler. But I'll still take your advice and keep an eye out for older alternative people since they may be more likely to not buy into this fad.

PS I just checked out your YT channel. I like your cartoon self! I don't know how you wear wigs -- my head sweats something fierce. I envy it working for you as it looks cool. And if you don't already know them, I was really into the Virgin Prunes back in the 80s

Aw thanks, I drew that cartoon avatar myself! And yeah I've been wearing wigs since 2016 so I mostly just got used to it and they don't bother me that much at all but yeah, it can get pretty crazy during the Summer months lol. And I only know like 2 songs by The Virgin Prunes but that was cool. :)

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Have you ever seen this Jobriath performance? I'm more into glam than goth because I find it more energetic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lp_e4wUnz4&ab_channel=ecubyan0 Feminine gay artist who should have been huge. There's a documentary on what went wrong, but wow, love him! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXks3Xjydh0&ab_channel=ecubyan0

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've actually never heard of Jobriath but that was an awesome performance! Thanks for sharing, I'll look into more of his music :)