Rant"Sexuality is fluid" - the root of all evil

submitted by ThrowMeAway2879 from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

Just today, I was reading about Tove Jansson (writer of the Moomin books, and Lesbian) and saw that she, at one point had a male fiance, and also wrote to one of her friends a letter saying:

I don’t think I’m entirely lesbian, I have a very clear sense that it can’t be any other woman than Vi, and my relationships with men are unchanged. Improved, maybe. Simpler, happier, less tense. (Tove in a letter to Eva Konikoff dated one week before Christmas, 1946)

(She would have been around 31/32 when she wrote that.)

And I'll be honest, I got excited for a second, thinking I could snatch her up for Team Bi, but reading that whole page thoroughly, there is also this:

She was a changed woman, who had finally “gone over to the ghost side”, as she said, ghost being a common reference for lesbians at the time. Tove and Tuulikki remained lifelong partners, living together for 45 years in adjacent studios[...]

And... IDK, based on this and other things I've read about her, I feel like this was just a lesbian woman slowly figuring out that she's lesbian throughout many long years in a time when there was no guidebook for such things except other fellow LGB people to guide you through the jungles of heteronormativity, if you were lucky, or, just figuring yourself out through your own instincts and blazing your own path, if you were not. Though of course, only she can know for sure what she is. But people might describe her as "sexually fluid" based on that article (here it is, by the way: https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/going-over-to-the-ghost-side-queer-themes-in-tove-janssons-life-and-work-part-3/) and that's annoying.

Her sexuality was never fluid, she was just figuring herself out through "experimenting" (what an annoying word!) with different people. She lived in a heteronormative world and felt pressured to date/marry a dude. It doesn't change the fact that she eventually settled into the label of lesbian once she figured herself out.

But bisexuals trying to reinterpret "sometimes I like dudes more, sometimes I like women more" as fluid is flawed. It's the same as "sometimes I like short people more, sometimes I like redheads more, sometimes I like people with glasses more." That's not fluidity, that's just you seeing something you like and being drawn to it.

People are so fucking confused about all these labels and the more labels they add, the more confused they get.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem is they keep trying to take snapshots of each moment in time and analyze it with labels and definitions. Inevitably, these snapshots, cumulatively, when reviewed from subsequent moments, will begin to conflict with one another, until you are my friend who wanted everyone to use different pronouns that changed as often as the weather. Fortunately my friend wised up a bit and defaulted to "they" after a few weeks of trying to be All The Stereotypes™. I hope she finally defaults to "she" again at some point. She's got all the parts and DNA and isn't trying to look otherwise. But, baby steps.

[–]Feather 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think that, in addition to the Kinsey type scale of attraction to one sex or the other, there must also be a "disgust scale."

For instance, I don't think someone is necessarily bisexual if they didn't feel disgust when performing compulsory heterosexuality. If they felt neither disgust nor attraction, I think it is fair to say they are still gay.

A lot of heterosexual women try kissing a woman and discover that they are definitely straight because it does nothing for them. "It was like kissing a pillow. Just... nothing. Nada." No disgust but also no enjoyment of the act.

I believe it can work the same for some homosexual people. A woman sleeps with a man and feels nada, nothing, not even disgust, as though it's just a task like folding laundry; she sleeps with a woman and loves it.

It's fair to call her a lesbian.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, this makes sense. Also for people who are in "Gay for pay" or "lavender marriage" situations. A lot of times they aren't disgusted by being with their customer/spouse, they just feel nothing about it, like hugging a stranger/friend. I think this was the case with Tove, she didn't feel disgusted by the fiance, she just felt neutral about him and liked him as a friend. But she liked women in the "special" way, and that makes all the difference.

[–]BiHorror 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Not gonna comment on that word due to its ties to queer theory BUT if it makes you feel any better: We have Josephine Baker who's bisexual (tho they're trying to rewrite that with the "queer" BS).

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Which word? Fluid or experimenting, or another one? (Just say a, b, or c, so you don't have to write it.) But yeah, I snatched up Evelyn Waugh a few years back, luckily, none of the kweer folk are trying to steal rich white British men for their kweer collections lately, so my snatching went unchallenged.

[–]BiHorror 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Ah, none of those, it was heteronormativity. Always seen the QuEeR side always saying it (and queer theory). Lol, that's awesome but shit has that not been a trend with replacing all known LGB with "queer" labeling.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Heteronormative. I just recently started using it, but I don't want to be using any "kweer" words if I can help it, I didn't realize they were tied together! Is there a better word I can use to get across the same meaning? (Like being tricked by society to feel like boy+girl is the only option and there are no other options?) Thanks for giving me the head's up!

[–]BiHorror 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

As far as i know, not really, and the shitty thing is that term had potential but the coiner of it was apart of the queer theory creations. From I know, compulsory heterosexuality could be used (that's what heteronormativity based on) but that's just on your decision since that's coined by Adrienne Rich. Within in essay that was used for radical feminism. Which funny enough, I'm pretty sure why it got dropped out of fashion within queer theory since it's always heteronormativity now.

If you wanna use heteronormativity, you can! Didn't want make you feel like you needed to drop it, I just don't wanna use it myself. Especially since, for me, it makes it like I'm buying into the "queer theory" stuff.

[–]Gearbeta 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah I wouldn't use compulsory heterosexuality either, most of the concepts it talks about are mental gymnastics so straight or bisexual women can dismiss legitimate attraction to men so they can pretend to be lesbians. There's a comp het master doc that says things like "do you have crushes on fictional male characters or male celebrities or otherwise unattainable men?" As one of the things that suggests you're a lesbian. Or having a previous male partner come out as a transwoman as a sign you're a lesbian.

[–]BiHorror 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Shit, I forgot about that... Did that doc happen to be "Am I a lesbian?"

[–]Gearbeta 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The one I saw was from r/latebloomerlesbians's side bar. It's just called Comp Het but it looks like that document has been updated recently, don't worry though it's still garbage.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh no, I feel the same as you. I really don't want to use any "queer theory" words. Like I used to call myself "gender non-conforming" and people on the internet are confusing the fuck out of me, some say it's a "queer theory" word, some say it's a "rad-fem" word, and I'm just like... "I just want a short and simple way to get across what lens my life experience comes from when I'm explaining something, but without accidentally dogwhistling that I belong to a specific faction that I don't actually belong to!"

These people really are just ruining all the words.................

[–]BiHorror 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, people do ruin words. As for "GNC" it's often associated with Riki Anne Wilchins. Who just so happened to he the founder of the 1st national transgender advocacy group... Who also coined genderqueer. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it's queer theory. But, I do know RadFem got the sex and gender distinction from John Money, and they were the 1st the adopt the concept.

I'm considered "GNC" as well, but didn't use it when I found out who made the terminological disctinction. So, I just went back to being called tomboy.