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[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think there is reason to suppose bisexuals would hide their true sexuality to avoid aversion. Let's be honest here, there are plenty of stories passed around friend circles willing to talk about it about being dumped for men or women from bisexual partners. In mine, it's often so the bisexual can have children, and the homosexual partner was "for fun". If people were honest, these kinds of things can be avoided, but because they're not it's often a cheap heuristic to avoid heartbreak. If you're factoring in possible relationship disaster, removing that additional risk can feel more comfortable - and so bisexuals hide their sexuality to avoid being rejected for that heuristic. Which further reinforces that heuristic when those same bisexuals dump gay men to have relations with women for children. On and on it goes. Of course the solution to all of this would be for everybody to stop lying, a kind of mutual disarmament, and be honest about what they truly want in a relationship -- good luck getting that to happen. Am I saying this doesn't happen otherwise? No. Am I saying bisexuals are liars more than usual? No. Am I implying anything at all about any particular bisexual? No.

So far as populations of attraction go, there are some preliminary psychology studies suggesting that attraction to transsexuals is something of a unique fetish or fascination. The full study is available on PDF here, and wikipedia has a brief summary of it here. This third group is significantly autogynephiliacs (42% self admitted) and bisexual (41%). What needs to happen, however, and what I have not found, is a similar penile measurement reaction study to sanity check self-identified sexuality of supposed "gay" or "heterosexual" men and whether their reported sexuality is misreported for the remainder groups.

As there are more self-reported bisexuals than there are gays or lesbians (surveys differ but bisexuality is usually self-reported as higher or same-sex and opposite-sex contact [bisexual behavior] reported as higher), it's entirely plausible the primary acceptance in terms of attraction and relationship will be from bisexuals.

I am uncertain of the cause behind it, but there are also real relational complications statistically from bisexual relationships. The data I've seen is not clear whether that is in opposite-sex or same-sex relationships, however (except for bisexual women in opposite-sex relationships). Gay men with other gay men have the lowest domestic violence rates, but bisexual couples have the second highest (behind lesbians). It's hard to say as most studies report results by grouping in gay/bisexual together, and without distinguishing them, or only focusing on bisexual women without evaluating reports from bisexual men. This may intersect with transgenders as well, and perhaps everything stems from the same problem. What that problem is, however, is very difficult to determine when researchers continue to use improper and unclear methods or arbitrary groupings that obscure possible correlations.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

This comment is going to be all over the place, sorry. I'm in a blahblahblah mood.

In the first part of your post, I would add a #3: Trans people pretending to be non-trans LGB and speaking on our behalf to welcome trans into LGB spaces. I literally just made a different comment about this in another thread an hour ago.

Now to your first question, I've said this before but I believe there are a huge amount of confused bisexuals out there, the majority of them think they are straight, but many of them think they are gay/lesbian too.

I think they just don't understand what ZERO attraction to a particular sex means because they've never experienced it. I try to explain it to them like, 'You know how your sexual attraction to babies and children is ZERO no matter how pretty and cute they are? Well, it's like that, LG and S, their attraction to one sex is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING ZERO.' But somehow it's so difficult to push this idea into their brains if they've already decided they are LG or S and formed their whole identities around it. They think just because they like one sex waaay more than the other, that means they are monosexual. I've actually seen a "Gay guy" argue with other gay guys about not only how he CHOSE to be gay but that they all chose to be gay too, they just won't admit it because they are too invested in this "born this way" lie.

And it's like......... Dude... You never once considered that maybe you are capable of being attracted to both but choosing to be only with men, but they LITERALLY AREN'T capable of being attracted to both??? I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept.

But the attitude always ends up being "I'm right, the rest of the world is wrong!"

Another point I can make about your first question is this: I've witnessed this firsthand in the past with bisexuals trying to escape the stigma of bisexuality by calling themselves pansexual, queer, or 'I don't label myself.' When I was out as bisexual, even though I lived and spent time in major, progressive, LGBT-heavy American cities, people often gave me a hard time about being bi. They got sour looks on their faces, made snarky comments about 'bi now, gay later' and some of them even demanded that I was a lesbian in denial. It was such a rare occasion to get a "You're bi??? Me too! Hi-five!" or at least an "Oh, okay, cool" (with a shrug) that it got to the point where whenever I said it, I was already ready for disappointment. So I can see other people taking the easy way out and opting out of the bi-label altogether.

Back then if you called yourself pansexual, it gave the image of being a mystical, hippie-dippie flower child who does yoga and lives a vegan lifestyle or something, IDK. If you called yourself queer, it gave the image of being mysterious, edgy, colored hair, alternative lifestyle punkrock activist kind of vibe. Even 'I don't label myself' gave off an air of 'I'm a confident person just living my life and not needing approval.' Whereas all bisexuality had was... Baggage.

The part I bolded above... The IDENTITY, I think that's the biggest problem here. People want to identify with a tribe, and they see L,G,P,Q, and even 'I don't label myself' as a much cooler tribe to belong to than bisexual (and for me that is weird, because obviously we are the most awesome!?!?) But basically these are delusional people who are lying to themselves and it sucks. If you are genuinely confused and don't realize you're bi, because you think everyone feels the same way you do, that's fine. We have no idea what other people truly experience on the inside, so it's easy to assume everyone feels the same way we do. You have to work a little bit harder and pull your head out of your own ass before you can figure out "What if the way I feel about men and women isn't the way all LGS feel about men and women?" And I blame this on the society being so heteronormative. From the moment you're born, you're told you're STRAIGHTSTRAIGHTSTRAIGHTTHEREISNOTOTHEROPTIONONLYSTRAIGHT. And for L's and G's, this is easier to figure out as a falsehood, (and some of them struggle a whole lifetime to get there) but for B's, because it's true that we like the opposite sex we just automatically assume that we are straight like we've been told, it's much harder for us to realize that actual straight people don't feel the way we do.

And in the same way, some B's jump to the conclusion of, 'well, I'm really really sexually attracted to same sex, so I'm obviously L/G' and for whatever reason they push down their feelings of attraction for opposite sex, the same way 'straight' bisexuals push down their feelings of attraction to the same sex.

Anyway, this is getting way too long now. Thanks for reading if anyone read this far.

[–]les4leshomonormative 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've had a few bisexual people tell me they don't understand how people could be homosexual/heterosexual or that they don't believe that true homosexuality or heterosexuality exists. (They've been largely into the trans stuff as well tbf so i can see "but wahh you can't tell gender from looking at someone")

What you said about choosing an identity and a "group" to run with also rings very true. I think that's especially a problem with younger people, and especially on the internet where there's a pretty insular and echo-chambery view of most of those "communities"

[–]BiHorror 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They think just because they like one sex waaay more than the other, that means they are monosexual.

That and it depends if you believe hetero/homoflexible is an actual thing or not. Plus, taking the Kinsey Scale seriously or not which I'm not sure if that could've also been a factor to this denial. Most people do, with them (hetero/homoflexible) being 1-5s, and 2-4 being the actual bisexuals. As you said, there's a different between finding someone just attractive because they are versus genuinely having a sexual attraction towards them but I think people get so caught up thinking that bisexuality needs to be equal attraction towards both the sexes, that's where some of these other "sexualities" pop up. Alongside with what you said as people wanting to avoid the bisexuality label.

(and for me that is weird, because obviously we are the most awesome!?!?)

Best of both worlds. Sorry monos, but we different (this is a joke before anyone goes off on me. Both mono and non-mono are cool)

heteronormative

Same with mononormativity, but I'm always wary to use these terms since they're usually tied in w/ queer theory

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed. I used to find hetero/homoflexible "cringy" but I did a total 180 about that. Had we just taken those two terms seriously and let the people who want to call themselves that feel valid, like 20 years ago, we would not be having so many of these problems right now. I believe there are a lot of Kinsey 1's and 5's out there. Like, let them feel safe and snuggly in their hetero/homo label, and get "flexible" on the rare occasion that they find someone worth flexing for. (So long as they're honest though. No lying about being LG or S and then blindsiding your partner later, because we B's are the ones who end up getting blamed for that!)

I think society as a whole really bungled up this whole sexuality business all the way from the beginning, and we're going to be dealing with the fall-out for many more generations still.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, and now it's just gonna more worst especially with all the new "sexualities."

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you've covered all of it I think, I just wanted to add while I understand the bi denial by lgb and straight people can be upsetting, it won't change if Bi's don't assert their identity, just like LG people do. I remember a woman at reddit dropt who felt she didn't; have a right to the community becasue she was in a opp sex marriage, but I tried to get her to understand she is still bi and she doesn't need to hide her voice. She will benefit us more as identifying as bi than just letting people assume something. My other issue is bi claiming to be LG because they are near one end of a spectrum. I had a discussion with a guy who really only went with guy's, so he felt he could call himself gay, even though he had no problem being sexual with women... He felt it was ok to claim to be homosexual when he really wasn't. That doesn't help LG or BI visibility, and works against us with the genital preferences crowd.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think they just don't understand what ZERO attraction to a particular sex means because they've never experienced it.

I started thinking about this when I read someone talking about being completely disinterested in one sex back in the old sub right before it was banned. The analogy I considered to understand monosexuality are those who are not too physically attractive or those too young/old(similar to yours). I feel like neither really fit particularly well, but it's better than nothing...

There might be exceptions of course, but I think straight people (should) understand monosexual attraction better and bi people (should) understand same-sex attraction better. And I guess gays and lesbians (should) understand monosexual and same-sex attraction better. Seems like there will always be innate gaps in understanding due to a person's own sexuality. It's almost as if we all need to compare notes and remind one another occasionally otherwise the LGB and S (and A?) won't really understand eachother lol

[–]CastleHoward 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I read it but I spent way to long trying to figure out what S stood for. I'm an idiot.

[–]julesburm1891[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You hit the nail on the head for No. 3. A lot of what we’re seeing probably is trans people pretending to be LGB too.

I think you makes a really interesting point about some bi people not understanding that not everyone is bi. On the whole, I think we all have a harder time understanding that not everyone’s experiences and feelings mirror our own. You covered how it’s processed by bisexuals, but the same thing happens with homo- and heterosexuals. We also tend to forget that not everyone experiences attraction to one sex and extrapolate that in ways that aren’t great for bi people.

Your point about identity is also spot-on. Words like gay, lesbian, bi, and straight should just describe the specific people to which they apply. But, the movement’s dogged attempt to make them “identities” isn’t doing anyone any favors. It’s just creating an unhealthy environment that people are treating like a club to join. All that accomplishes is keep people from being honest about their feelings, even if that dishonesty is completely detrimental to actual members of the group.

The best solutions and the easiest solutions rarely overlap. In this case, I think the best solution is for everyone to be honest, truly listen, and not vilify people who’s experiences differ. Will that be the easiest? Hell no. But, we should try.

P.S. Don’t apologize for the long answer. You always have really insightful and often funny comments here and they’re some of my favorite to read.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

<3 Thank you! Sometimes I feel self-conscious about my wall-of-texts.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think there are bisexuals who have either a masculinity or femininity preference and then pretend to only like the respective gender while dating both actual sexes to call themselves homosexual.

Wasn't "political lesbianism" a thing that was going around for a while? Where a bunch of sexist women said that they were going to "go lesbian" to prove how much they hate men? If people like that buy into the gender identity bullshit, then they'd be ecstatic to finally get to have sex with the opposite sex without it looking like they're giving up their bigoted stance on gender, sex, and sexuality

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

2- There would have to be heavy self-gaslighting involved whether or not the men and transmen or women and transwomen they are attracted to are both masc, because I don't think it's ever possible to 'ambiguate' the sexes to the extent needed to convince themselves of that. There's too many stark differences obvious in a heartbeat. But yes, these bisexuals probably exist.

edit: I meant 2. but for some reason(autoformatting?), Saidit changed it to a 1.