AGP male self aware and critical of Trans Ideology (WORTH reading)

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[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Wow, I read the whole thing! (Very long, but it's very good, it's everything we've been saying for such a long time, this guy is finally admitting it!)

Unless society is willing to separate HSTS from AGP and view it as two completely different situations/mental illnesses with two completely different solutions, the HSTS are going to go down with the AGP ship, and that sucks for them. AGP are using HSTS as a human shield and most people don't want to see it or even hear about it. They are committed to the belief that all transgender people are transgender from birth and it will cost them too much to change their minds now. But by refusing to see the truth, they are hurting the very trans people (HSTS) that they think they're protecting.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I've posted this few times already, but: https://sevenhex.com/why-we-transsexuals-are-leaving-the-stonewall-umbrella/

UK "oldschool" transsexuals left transgender craze, because it is harming them.

[–]IAmSatanVery... very... very gay. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, this is what many gender critical trans- and intersex people are saying. They are hurting people with genuine dysphoria or other problems related to it on top of being extremely unethical experiment on children.

[–]unexpectedly_local 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I honestly cannot fathom why people are so uncaring that AGPs may exist. Is this more of the "give men benefit of the doubt at all costs"? Like, they can of course recognize it (every time an AGP gets arrested for being a rapey creep they shout he's not really trans) and well yes that's the point. A lot of these guys are not really "trans" they just haven't committed a crime yet.

Hmm, maybe I can fathom it somewhat. Is it an extension of "no kinkshaming"!!! rhetoric? I am also thinking of every time a man is rapey or pedoish no one really wants to believe it until he gets arrested. Even then, no one really wants to believe it until the evidence is rock solid. But then I'm stumped as to why the AGP thoughts they spew all over the internet isn't considered rock solid evidence.

[–]les4leshomonormative 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I know many women see this whole thing as an orchestrated plot to destroy feminism and put females back in their boxes. You might be right. (That Everyday Feminism site disturbs me.) But my gut feeling at the moment is that it's something more selfish and unconscious. Something typically male, in other words. I don't think a lot of us even notice the damage we're doing as we rampage around in the china shop.

Also a good snippet. Appreciate this introspection/self-awareness a lot, it's (obviously) very rare on Reddit

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Definitely! Thanks! I skipped that one. Yes, this guy has some incredible level of self awareness in comparison with the typical AGP.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One of the best parts (but definitely worth reading it all!):

But I am deeply alarmed and concerned by what autogynephilic men like me are doing. Denying and concealing a particular kind of sexuality is dangerous. I'm a man, much as I might wish I wasn't, and I know full well the kind of shenanigans we males try to get away with when nobody's looking. Especially what we're doing to lesbians. Every time I think about it I want to punch holes in the wall (in a ladylike way, of course). I can't help being a perv, but I can damn well make sure I'm not a creep.

When he tried to raise his concerns...

Whenever I try to raise my concerns about all this with friends and family, their universal response is 'What's the big deal?'

Examples (from my left-leaning circle):

(WORTH reading the examples)

Another awesome part:

The real implications--that AGP means we're all fundamentally heterosexual males, and that women should be just as wary of us as they are of every other heterosexual male--seem to fly over their heads. Even though I'm standing there going, "Hello? I have AGP and I'm telling you not to extend a free pass to guys like me. Hello? Can you hear me? Is this thing on? Hello?" Nah... the moment a man says he's a woman, he must have been one all along, welcome, how brave, here's your get-out-of-male-free card. I wonder when Trump will hit on that little trick.

Being an AGP male...

I suspect (as do many others) that the vast majority of MTFs these days are autogynephilic males who probably don't even have dysphoria, but are just enjoying the sweet sweet bliss of plugging into the Transgender Orgasmatron Matrix and imagining we're women, while society bends over backwards to stroke our pleasure centres. I was ready to do it.

All this increasingly deranged language? 'Assigned male at birth', 'sex is a social construct', 'women and ciswomen' instead of transwomen and women, 'clit' instead of 'penis', on and on and on... It's not just political correctness gone mad. It's not just thought policing and Orwellian newspeak. It's kink.

My hot take: We're not delusional, exactly. We're not convinced we're women, like the guy who's convinced he's Jesus. If we were, we wouldn't get so angry when people refuse to play along; we'd just nod and smile and forgive them. We just really, really, really want to believe we're women. Because it feels so exquisite. We're trying our damndest to stay asleep, but deep down we know it's all a dream.

HIS CONCLUSION (The best!):

I'm not writing all this to wring sympathy from anyone. I'm just trying to say that the denial of autogynephilia doesn't just hurt women and children (and team LGB, and...) It also hurts AGPs ourselves, by misleading us, turning our feelings inside out, and pandering to our selfish desires instead of teaching us restraint. Because if we're women, we must be safe and trustworthy, right?

I came this close to throwing my righteous weight behind trans activism, attacking TERFs and hurting the people I love and adore most of all--women--while totally convinced I was a good guy. Or rather girl.

[–]fuck_reddit 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Its so fucking refreshing to see some honest introspection. It's amazing how rare it's becoming for people to admit to and work to overcome their faults. It shows they're a person that (more often) can have a calm discussion and actually improve themselves and help others gain a better understanding of themselves at the same time.

[–]FediNetizenSuper-semi-bisexual (i.e. straight) 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"I can't help being a perv, but I can damn well make sure I'm not a creep."

God this problem would just go away if other AGPs shared his outlook.

[–]julesburm1891 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is actually a really brilliant read.

[–]reluctant_commenter 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Is this the one that was posted on s/itsafetish?

His writing is fantastic. I remember reading this the first time and being like "I didn't wake up expecting to be impressed by the perspective of a guy with AGP but I sure am".

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, it is! :P It's amazing!

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gotcha, yeah good thinking to post it here, I didn't know so many people hadn't seen it. Too bad the guy who wrote it is not around in this sub, I wonder what he is up to now.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I suspect (as do many others) that the vast majority of MTFs these days are autogynephilic males who probably don't even have dysphoria, but are just enjoying the sweet sweet bliss of plugging into the Transgender Orgasmatron Matrix and imagining we're women, while society bends over backwards to stroke our pleasure centres. I was ready to do it.

Brilliant and insightful.

[–]CheesyPeas 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think one of the factors to his self awareness is he is slightly older than a lot of the young trans trenders we usually see on Reddit and Twitter.

I am an ageing (well over 50) AGP homosexual male.

I got diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) in 1982. As a teenager. I share much with this chaps posts. So I will not re-iterate much. But just to add. I think there are a lot of classical transvestites/transvestic fetishism who understand very well they are not women. Or will ever be one.

I am deeply aware that my cross-dressing is sexually driven. Always has been. I know I am partaking in 'gender blackface' as I have labelled it.

But I keep it private. To my own home. My hubby indulges me from time to time. But I do not let it run my life.

I will admit to struggling with it a lot when I was much younger. The drive to wish to present was very strong. But I never forced it upon anyone. Maybe a touch of eyeliner or some mascara. Painted toe nails... Was about as risqué as I ever got in public.

I read these stories of these kids and I just see AGP in nearly all of them. After my diagnosis my parents were told to leave me alone. Even though I professed to being a girl as I went through and out of the other side of puberty this feeling diminished and I was back to feeling I am just a man, confused one certainly. But a man, never the less.

I find it sad that so many young men are being allowed to indulge this fetish to the point of self destruction, in decades to come we are going to witness much regret from these kids.

'Lessons will be learnt' to late to stop lives being ruined. What a shitshow.

I think there are more of us than we imagine. But like the 'quiet' gays you never know are gay we stay quiet in the shadows.

It is always the most radical and noisy that get the attention. Sadly. They ruin it often for the rest of us, just trying to live a good and private life.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for your insightful answer :) See, I have 0 problem with AGP males and autoandrophilic (I think I'm saying it right) females. What you do privately with or without a loved one I have no business with and I don't care. And everyone should be absolutely allowed to dress however they want. Let's just not pretend men can be women and women can be men. The problem is that these TRAs are forcing EVERYONE to indulge in their fetishes, by twisting language and banning, shutting down, gaslighting everyone. But I know you know that already. I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your feedback and answer.

[–]divingrightintowork 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Some people thought it was fake, but I thought it was great, so who knows?

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I personally don't think it is fake because he was very detailed and didn't leave "blank spaces" on his logic and journey. He didn't seem biased either. Even the beginning, him explaining why he's critical of trans ideology but NOT gender critical. I don't know, it sounded genuine, there were details that weren't even needed to be in there if it was simply fake story and also his availability to answer questions, but who knows. But on the off chance that is fake, it is really well made and written LOL!

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It doesn't sound fake to me. I think people are incentivized to make fake posts by pushing an agenda or stirring people up. This guy is doing neither of those things.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This was a very good read actually. Particularly the points he made about AGP being so taboo. I never thought much about it before but in my last few years at high school I was always told that it's very offensive to question anyone's status as trans or even ask why they thought they were trans.

Tbh I wish I could go out in my fetish gear and then bully people into thinking it's my true identity and tell them they're horrible people for questioning it.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Your submission has been removed due to:

    Rule 4. Disallowed Language

    Our sub seeks to champion LGB people of a variety of backgrounds, and want all of our LGB users to feel welcome. We do not allow specific ideological slang/terms to be used which may be used in a negative or divisive context. These include, but are not limited to: TIM/TIF, Timmy/Tiffany, MTT/FTT, etc

    We suggest using the following terminology instead: trans-identified (fe)male, trans (wo)man, trans natal (fe)male, trans people, FTM / MTF

    If you edit your submission to remove the phrase, or you feel this removal was performed in-error, please let the subreddit Moderators know by sending ModMail so your submission may be re-approved.

    I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this sub if you have any questions or concerns.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Is it just me or is that subreddit banned? If it was banned it looks really recent as this was posted only 7 days ago

    [–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Yes, GCguys was banned. It was like a month ago? 2nd ban wave I think. So first I don't know how web.archive.org works (I just saved the link). But I believe it says was posted 7 days ago, because it was at that time that the person "saved" and "archived" it, 7 days after it was posted. If you look at the top it will appear a date, 5th july 2020 and on the left side 30 Jun 2020 - 9 July 2020. So I would say this was originally posted at GCguys by the end of june/beginning of july. I think.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    oh ok! Also, thanks for sharing the link, the OP has a lot of insight into what is going on with himself and trans persons / community. It is refreshing to get a nuanced and thoughtful position.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    We're trying our damndest to stay asleep, but deep down we know it's all a dream. And you just keep on trying to shake us awake with your painful reminders that we aren't women and never can be, that our heart's desire is impossible.

    Gross.

    I could appreciate the essay more if it didn't compare being AGP with being gay, or blamed women for making AGPs uncomfortable.

    [–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    compare being AGP with being gay

    He didn't AT ALL. He explained in the beginning, with LOTS of detail the difference between the two types of transexuals (his point it's to show they're totally different and shouldn't be confused...):

    The short version is that there are two--and only two--kinds of MTF transsexual.

    One is 'homosexual transsexual' or HSTS: basically the cousins of very feminine gay men--the extreme end of the rainbow. (If you want a dodgy shorthand stereotype, think The Crying Game, or Cindy from Ally McBeal if anyone remembers that episode. Blaire White on YouTube is probably HSTS, as is Georgie Stone for the Aussies reading this. Also probably HSTS: Janet Mock, Laverne Cox, Kay Brown, Jazz Jennings, Bailey Jay, and maybe Rhyannon Styles.)

    The other is 'autogynephilic transsexual' or AGP: heterosexual males with an erotic desire to be women. AGP can twist our sexuality into pretzels until we seem to be bisexual, asexual, attracted only to men or 'trans lesbians'. Apart from that, we seem like ordinary blokes--because we are ordinary blokes. We have trouble passing as women and often shock everyone when we come out as trans.

    "blamed women for making AGPs uncomfortable"

    He didn't. At all. I think in some sentences he was being quite humoristic. This was a critic towards AGP males clearly, not women.

    But I am deeply alarmed and concerned by what autogynephilic men like me are doing. Denying and concealing a particular kind of sexuality is dangerous. I'm a man, much as I might wish I wasn't, and I know full well the kind of shenanigans we males try to get away with when nobody's looking.

    I know many women see this whole thing as an orchestrated plot to destroy feminism and put females back in their boxes. You might be right. (That Everyday Feminism site disturbs me.) But my gut feeling at the moment is that it's something more selfish and unconscious. Something typically male, in other words. I don't think a lot of us even notice the damage we're doing as we rampage around in the china shop.

    The real implications--that AGP means we're all fundamentally heterosexual males, and that women should be just as wary of us as they are of every other heterosexual male--seem to fly over their heads. Even though I'm standing there going, "Hello? I have AGP and I'm telling you not to extend a free pass to guys like me. Hello? Can you hear me? Is this thing on? Hello?" Nah... the moment a man says he's a woman, he must have been one all along, welcome, how brave, here's your get-out-of-male-free card. I wonder when Trump will hit on that little trick.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    To be clear: I'm not ashamed of having AGP. Any more than a gay man or lesbian should be ashamed of being homosexual.

    The comparison.

    Like 'yell it from the rooftops' joy. In my view, calling us sicko perverts is counterproductive... although we're giving women plenty of justification these days.

    Making it about how women "should" react.

    [–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Yes, you're right about the comparison in that part, although I personally presume that it wasn't his intention to say that AGP is of the same nature as homosexuality. But yes, I do understand better where you're coming from now and it wasn't a good comparison indeed.

    About the other part... Well, he is simply stating his opinion isn't he? He wasn't like "WOMEN SHUT UP AND STOP SAYING THAT SO THAT I CAN GET OFF". Not only that, he actually understands why women are enraged:

    although we're giving women plenty of justification these days.

    He explains why it's counterproductive:

    That sort of disgust, and the deep shame many AGPs feel, is one of the reasons AGP was hushed up and denied in the first place, because the dysphorics among us couldn't get treatment if we admitted to it. It's contributed to the mess we're in now.

    Saying he's "blaming women" seems too harsh and exaggerated for a post whose intention was to defend feminists and women and be critical of AGP males. He even said "In my view"... and was respectful overall.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    AGP is a problem that only occurs in men that's been shoved on women. He recognizes it's wrong and yet still finds a way for women to be partially responsible, if only for hurting feelings.

    He's so above it, and understands so much about it, yet here he is displaying his personal odyssey on figuring out women are people for sympathy.

    I don't think any interpretation is wrong, but that's mine.

    [–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, the female version exists also, it's called autoandrophilia, although it seems much rarer to occur than on men (but I admit I have no idea really). I really don't have the same opinion as you, given the entire scheme of the post. Even in the end he says:

    I'm not writing all this to wring sympathy from anyone. I'm just trying to say that the denial of autogynephilia doesn't just hurt women and children (and team LGB, and...) It also hurts AGPs ourselves, by misleading us, turning our feelings inside out, and pandering to our selfish desires instead of teaching us restraint. Because if we're women, we must be safe and trustworthy, right?

    Also, women also need to be better at asserting their boundaries too. I 100% agree with you that many men take advantage of women, not only because they're physically stronger, but also because women tend to give in much easier, because they were educated to put other's needs in front of her own needs socially. So, it's not easy. But women also need to learn to be more assertive and strong and not give in so easily (as long as it doesn't put her in risk).

    But well, in short, let's agree to disagree then!

    [–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    This was posted in the GC guys sub, so more likely addressing GC people in general. And I think the agp is already fully conceding that it's all an unhealthy illusion, and others are repeatedly showing the agp's harsh reality, but they keep wanting to stay dreaming because it feels very good to self-deceive.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I understand, maybe I just can't find it sympathetic.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Your submission has been removed due to:

      Rule 4. Disallowed Language

      Our sub seeks to champion LGB people of a variety of backgrounds, and want all of our LGB users to feel welcome. We do not allow specific ideological slang/terms to be used which may be used in a negative or divisive context. These include, but are not limited to: TIM/TIF, Timmy/Tiffany, MTT/FTT, etc

      We suggest using the following terminology instead: trans-identified (fe)male, trans (wo)man, trans natal (fe)male, trans people, FTM / MTF

      If you edit your submission to remove the phrase, or you feel this removal was performed in-error, please let the subreddit Moderators know by sending ModMail so your submission may be re-approved.

      I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this sub if you have any questions or concerns.