Gay MenNot being attracted to transmen doesn’t make you transphobic. : askgaybros

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[–]8bitgay 37 insightful - 3 fun37 insightful - 2 fun38 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

I mean, as a top, if ur main focus is ass, why fuck an asshole when u can fuck a vagina.

Funny with how much they love saying "if you date a transman you don't need to use his female genital!!!"

So, straight people are allowed to rule out gay men from "their own space"? Please elaborate what "their own space" means

I dunno, I guess I should go on planned parenthood clinics and demand to discuss gay issues instead of pregnancy. Or maybe I should go to a straight strip club and demand to see male performers. Do these people really think straight people don't create their own spaces too, for many reasons?

Person A: I feel nothing when I see women's vaginas, but for some trans men's, its kinda hot. They put the content out there. If you dont enjoy it, fine. Scroll past it.

Person B: We don't tell women to scroll past unsolicited dick pics, we actively build a culture where its inappropriate to send them.

That's a good response.

You’re attracted to gender presentation, not sex.

I love the lack of consistency. All this talk about gender identity and transmen, and then they mention gender presentation, which is a different issue altogether.

The Conservative angle is easy, any infighting means they get to capitalize on it and drive a wedge between us

I mean, if you care so much about creating divides maybe leave gays and lesbians alone, gosh.

Edit: to be frank I also think that these threads often have kinda inflammatory comments that don't help our side

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 12 insightful - 10 fun12 insightful - 9 fun13 insightful - 10 fun -  (4 children)

Lol, there are no such thing as straight strip clubs in Genderworld. If you thought you were straight and the dancing lady identifies as a man and you get a boner, you are now gay, deal with it. And if you don't get a boner for the dancing dudes that identify as women, you have now committed a hate crime.

[–]8bitgay 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you thought you were straight and the dancing lady identifies as a man and you get a boner, you are now gay, deal with it.

Which is funny because that comment I quoted also says that you're attracted to "gender presentation". So in your example if the dancing person that identifies as man presents himself in a feminine way a straight guy can be attracted to him. They really enjoy contradicting themselves.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

For fuck's sake, you just blew my mind. The puzzle pieces were there but you connected them.

1 - according to TRA's attraction is all about gender, not sex, so basically we are supposed to be attracted to ladybrains, manbrains and wtfbrains, not bodies. That's why you see all these male-bodied women with beards, and no one is allowed to misgender them on Twitter or else they'll get fired from their jobs, at least if they're from the UK.

2 - according to TRA's attraction is all about gender expression, so basically we are supposed to a) be attracted to a gender, and b) be sexually attracted to the way a human presents themselves as that gender (ie. man in a dress wearing makeup is now female gender.) but absolutely 100% fucking NOT their genitals because that's a fetish that needs to be unlearned and genitals are irrelevant to gender. (Even though... GENitals, GENder... both have same root word? Hmmm...)

Dude. I want to get off this ride. It's not funny anymore.

[–]8bitgay 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

From my experience in the past they say two things:

1 - attraction is about gender identity. Gay men feel attracted to everyone who identifies as man

2 - attraction is about gender expression. Gay men feel attracted to masculinity

Sometimes they might change from 1 to 2 mid-conversation. Once I was talking to a guy who was very 1, he was all about "trans men identify as men so gay men like them too". Then I showed him a picture of a cis guy who is conventionally attractive and masculine (yet he doesn't identify as man) and asked him if he thought that gay men wouldn't find them attractive, even though they doesn't identify as man. Then suddenly his view changed to 2 and he started saying that the person is masculine and their masculinity is attractive etc.

I like this way of dealing with this topic, pointing out these contradictions. It's also good to keep track of what others are saying, because they love to use the "nobody actually says that" line. So it's good to be able to say "no, actually this and that person said it".

Another interesting line they use is that you can't see someone's genital if you see them on the street and find them attractive. If they're a type 1 you can easily point out that you can't know someone's gender either, so you'd be assuming either way.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

From my experience in the past they say two things: 1 - attraction is about gender identity. Gay men feel attracted to everyone who identifies as man 2 - attraction is about gender expression. Gay men feel attracted to masculinity

This is a fantastic point. I hadn't clarified those two things in my mind before, I'll keep a lookout for that now.

[–]windrunner[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Edit: to be frank I also think that these threads often have kinda inflammatory comments that don't help our side

Yes, definitely.

[–]8bitgay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Frankly a big part of the LGBT community (and a relevant part of the straight people nowadays) believes strongly that trans men are men and trans women are women. This isn't new, this has been the case for years even before the whole "gays/lesbians must date trans" thing became popular.

I think we lose a lot of possible people for our side when people keep saying that trans men aren't men. And it makes the whole discussion easy to dismiss, because then they think "well, this person said transmen aren't men, and this is wrong, so everything he says is wrong". Maybe I'm being naïve, but I think we could get more people to our side by pointing out other issues.

[–]Rosefield 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah but if trans men are men then gay men have no "excuse" to not be attracted to them. You can't have it both ways. Either fight for lgb rights OR cater to homophobes & trans activists.

[–]8bitgay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I mean, I also consider a male dog male, and it's pretty understandable for everyone that I wouldn't be attracted to a dog.

Frankly I believe that having the courtesy to call someone the way they prefer doesn't mean that they suddenly changed sex, and sex is relevant for many spaces. And they know it too: you don't see transmen rushing for military enlistment in countries where it's only compulsory for men. In situations when it's disadvantageous for them, they're fine with following their sex instead of their self-identified gender. This is also why you don't see as many transmen demanding to use the male bathroom.

As I've said before, they might say "gay men are attracted to men, so they're also attracted to transmen", but their views are often contradictory. Show them a picture of an attractive masculine non-binary person and suddenly they change the narrative to "gay men feel attracted to masculinity, regardless of how the person identifies". So even if you consider transmen as men, their logic easily falls into these contradictions. But if you consider only that gay men feel attracted to the male sex, it isn't contradictory. Under this logic, it doesn't matter if you consider transmen as men or not, they are outside of the scope of our attraction.

There are many gays and lesbians out there being convinced that they have to feel attracted to the opposite sex, while they also firmly support trans rights. Saying that transmen are women will probably only drive them further away, and it's not like this is something new to them.

Again, I might be naïve, but I think you have a better chance if you remind them that it's ok to fight for the rights of trans people, like the right to not suffer violence. But demanding to be part of other people's sex life and invading spaces of other groups (including opposite sex spaces) isn't anyone's right. Men have rights, and you can support men who have their rights denied without supporting incels.

However, I'm not even saying that you have to call transmen men. I'm just saying that coming to discussions about these topics using the "transmen are women" card right away will probably have the same negative result. I'd avoid saying this and instead focus on the other many issues of their discourse.

[–]AreYouSureee 32 insightful - 12 fun32 insightful - 11 fun33 insightful - 12 fun -  (5 children)

« If you stopped your PSA at the title, I would have agreed with you. But unsurprisingly, your language about the topic is transphobic. not being attracted to trans people indeed does not make you transphobic. But your insistence that trans people with a vagina are “biological women” is inaccurate. Genitalia are not the deciding factor of someone’s gender. Trans men are men, trans women are women. It’s fine you’re not attracted to them, but please make an effort to think of them as the gender in which they identify and not what you believe their “biological sex” to be. It’s the decent thing to do.»

🙄🙄🙄

[–]hufflepuff-poet 47 insightful - 3 fun47 insightful - 2 fun48 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I hate the "it's the decent thing to do" argument. We don't validate any other mental illness, we don't tell anorexics-- yeah you do look a little fat in those jeans?! Why is it okay to validate THE BIGGEST MENTAL DELUSION, and ask everyone else to actively participate in lying and denying our most basic reality, this is so dangerous.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 31 insightful - 2 fun31 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. We tried doing the "decent thing" by humoring Transsexuals and then Transgenders for many years and that's why we're in this situation right now. What we did wasn't the decent thing, it was the LAZY thing. We knew deep down these people were cray-cray but we were okay with them living a delusional, miserable lifestyle filled with mental illness, obsessive thoughts, and anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation, so long as they didn't bother us with it. And now here we are. They are bothering us with it, and what can we do?

[–]windrunner[S] 29 insightful - 3 fun29 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

these people are fucking delusional, no, really. "[M]ake an effort to think of them as the gender in which they identify" like??? they are delusional and living in a bubble far far far from reality and want other people to participate into their delusions so that they can "be validated". it's ridiculous. if I identify as a unicorn and desperately want other people to believe in that that does not make me a fucking unicorn. (and apparently if I state that I'm an unicornphobic) seriously?

this is why the LGB NEEDS to drop the T.

[–]julesburm1891 18 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

TRAs: see above

Also TRAs: No one is saying that sex isn’t real!

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

How the hell does "gender" = get-out-of-(bio sex)-jail-free card???

Cuz (first of all): genitalia-- or, more specifically, indicators of biological sex, meaning sex characteristics both primary (genitalia) and secondary-- IS the deciding factor of someone's gender; THAT'S HOW GENDER WORKS. Indeed, that's what gender is, and always has been. A pair of social roles (the male gender-role and the female gender-role), defined and imposed by society, which automatically apply based on one's observed biological sex. Gender, in other words, is in the eye of the BEHOLDER, not oneself. And as soon as the beholder perceives your biological sex, you are gendered accordingly.

If this weren't the case, don't you think that women/girls desperate to escape the most oppressive effects of the female gender-role would normally just declare, "oh, my gender identity is male!" and get an instant opt-out? THIS IS WHY THAT WON'T WORK.

The other reason why it (and the "trans" brand of gender-- self-defined and self-applied-- as a whole) won't work: "gender" is INHERENTLY impersonal. That's the entire point! Each gender-role is a set of stereotypes dictating who you are allowed to be. You need to fit it, not the other way around. So this attempted "trans" rebranding of gender as its polar opposite-- the embodiment of all that's free, creative, fun, and above all individualistic-- makes absolutely no sense. It's like trying to turn RACIAL stereotypes into the essence of personal expression. WTF??? How can this sort of thing not be doomed to failure? And why even bother trying to repurpose something that's regressive and cruel to the core?

So let's apply the above here: "think of them as the gender in which they identify and not what you believe their "biological sex" [sic] to be".

Well, first, gender is DETERMINED by their biological sex. If you can perceive whether they're male or female... too late! Gendering already happened. Them's the rules. Don't like it? Then you obviously DON'T BELIEVE IN GENDER. So shut the hell up about it!

Second, since I'm convinced that "gender" is just so much pernicious bullshit, this would mean thinking of them as... what? Wrong, clearly; beholden to stereotypes? Backward? Subscribers to a dangerous ideology? To be pitied? Probably some combination of these. So that oughtta be A-OK with the trans-stan who made this request.

Third, since sexual orientation is entirely a matter of biological sex (your own + that of those to whom you're attracted = sexual orientation) and has fuck-all to do with "gender", "trans" must be fine about their automatic exclusion from everyone else's dating pool, right? Cuz we're to ignore their sex, and gender is irrelevant. No basis for sexual attraction on our end, then! Win/win!

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

/r/TrueLesbians were banned from reddit for such topics :(

[–]Rosefield 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This shit just goes on and on because trans narcs will never stop craving for gender validation. They will continue to be a pain in the ass until they get what they want.

[–]les4leshomonormative 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's a new one of these every few days on r/AGB, I'm amazed they haven't been banned

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

until they get what they want.

And after they get that, they will demand something more.

[–]Seahorse 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The amount of "So you saw a vagina, who cares or big deal"....like let's just swap this with straight men/dicks and lesbians....rapey logic isn't it?

This is pure and simple conversion therapy, fucking horrendous.

[–]PopeyesChicken 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They’ve been doing this to lesbians for much longer than they’ve been doing this to gay men lol. They even say “girldick”

[–]Seahorse 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh I know. It's still jarring that they're trying the same shit with men as they have with women.

It's an equal opportunities delusion it would seem 🤣

[–]InLaymansterms 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw that post with the Trans identifying female on GBGW that was mentioned in the post and it was just jarring. I pointed it out that it didn’t belong and was immediately flooded with hate and banned within 3 hours. They said that I was being disrespectful towards a male body but really I was being disrespectful to a woman trying to invade a space for men attracted to men

[–]PopeyesChicken 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Can I request that the people of this subreddit don’t upvote the anti-TRA comments in these threads? I want to see the genuine opinions of the guys at askgaybros

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I get where you're coming from, but unfortunately they weren't accurate anyway because trans people from other subs come and brigade them.

(You can see that from how many reports the post has gotten and the insta-bans for even mild comments.)

[–]jiljol 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

trans people from other subs come and brigade them.

This is made embarrassingly apparent when you see pro-TRA posts with leddit gold yet only getting a handful of upvotes. They really are THAT desperate.

[–]Seahorse 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The hilarious thing is the idiots have brigaded so much that it's now gained attention by all of Reddit.

And to the everyday straight person (who has no idea this has been going on), their rhetoric looks absolutely bonkers (cause it is).

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh wait really? I'm glad people have more awareness, I didn't realize reddit in general was more aware of it now!

[–]Seahorse 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah it's made it to the main page on Reddit (/all or /popular or whatever).

They're really giving it to each other, that will gain attention (there's been another couple of threads and people are at each other's throats).

Gay men are so much more confrontational about.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, I've been avoiding reddit so much I didn't even know. That's great to hear.

edit: Holy shit though, this brigading is insane. https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/ihnmgk/this_sub_is_surprisingly_super_transphobic/

[–]marmorsymphata 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

even being gay isn't about being gay. you imbecile. you fucking moron

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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