About trans attraction

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[–]AreYouSureee 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If they’re attracted to both men and women, they’re bisexual. One sex attraction is either hetero- or homosexual.

[–]Feather 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is true, and yet I do think some people's sexuality reacts to sex-cues more than to actual sex. It is Technically Correct to say that a straight man who is attracted to Blaire White is actually bisexual, or that a straight woman who is attracted to Buck Angel is actually bisexual, but I don't think it represents the spirit of the truth.

It's just that their legitimately straight orientations have been tricked by a variety of cues that correlate with what they find attractive in the opposite sex, and the tricky cues override biological reality. They aren't repressed bisexuals. They're people falling for optical illusions.

[–]luckystar 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah I would say that's more a misunderstanding than real attracted. Your average straight dude will be attracted to Blaire White from the waist up but reveal she has a male organ and most of them will feel repulsed. Likewise a gay guy can be attracted to Buck Angel from the waist up but the vagina's gonna be a pretty big deal breaker. We know both of them are non op but even supposing they got the surgery that'd still be a deal breaker for most people since those surgeries are not 100% replications of the real deal.

The analogy I make is of a sandwich (or pizza, etc). Let's say I love ham sandwiches, and I hate spicy foods. I see a mouth watering ham sandwich and am interested, then I bite into it and it has hot chili peppers in it.

Does wanting to eat this sandwich this mean I now like spicy foods? No, because what I saw was a ham sandwich, which I had no reasonable suspicion for it to be spicy.

Am I just gonna roll with it because "hey a ham sandwich is a ham sandwich"? Hell no, I'm gonna be grossed out by the chili peppers.

People feeling attraction to trans people doesn't mean their sexuality changed.

I do think some people can be like... let's say there's a 0-10 gay scale where 0 is straight, 5 is bi and 10 is gay. I think some men might be interested in sex w/a pre op trans woman because they're a 3 or 4 on that scale -- they're not equally attracted to both sexes like a 5 would be, but they're more open to male people than a 0. But most people would reasonably define anything from 2-9 as bisexual, since there are quite a lot of people grouped around 0 and a smaller but also substantial group of people around 10.

[–]emptiedriver 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's already a scale for that...

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do they have their own labels?

No, they don't. Sexuality is based on sex, not on gender.

However, genderqueer activists are trying to make label for every single thing they can think. So putting people into boxes and judging by stereotypes of box is easier.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

A trans woman is biologically a male. A trans man is biologically a female.

Homosexual - attracted to the same sex

Heterosexual - attracted to the opposite sex

Bisexual - attracted to both sexes (males and females)

Gay man - male attracted to other males

Lesbian - female attracted to other females

Just apply the logic:

  • man (male) who is attracted to women (females) and transwomen (males) - bisexual

  • woman (female) who is attracted to men (males) and transmen (females) - bisexual

  • man (male) who is attracted to men (males) and transmen (females) - bisexual

  • transman (female) who is attracted to women (females) and transwomen (males) - bisexual

etc. etc. etc.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Just apply the logic:

man (male) who is attracted to women (females) and transwomen (males) - bisexual

woman (female) who is attracted to men (males) and transmen (females) - bisexual

Not to the large number of bisexuals who constantly resist this re-defining of bisexuality to include trans people. Nope nope nope. That needs its own term (i.e., what pansexual at least used to mean). We get targeted enough by TRAs who think we are supposed to want them because we like both biological sexes.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

According to my logic, this also applies to lesbians and gay men. For example, a woman (female) attracted to women (female) and trans men (female) = lesbian. Men (male) attracted to men (male) and trans women (male) = gay man

Does this mean all lesbians are attracted to trans men? No. For example, I'm definitely not. Does this mean all gay men are attracted to trans women? No. Well, guess what? The same for bisexual people! It doesn't mean ALL bi people want to date trans people. Dating trans people, regardless of your sexual orientation, is a preference of yours and, in my opinion, doesn't need an extra label. I'm so fed up of seeing so many labels.

EDIT: Anyway, if bisexual people are more comfortable with another sexuality existing (pansexuality), I mean, totally fine for me. I realise it's must be tiring for you too to handle this TRA shit.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's the reason for the different label in this case. I would support this notion for lesbians and gay men as well—the overwhelming majority of whose opinions I've heard about this here and elsewhere do not skew toward including trans people in their dating pools. TRAs love to label things, so they should be able to manage this accurately. (Except of course for how they benefit from riding on LGB street cred. If they were respecting that, cool, but the people who have turned it into a cult sure don't. So no misappropriation of terms for them. They need to find their own, not keep trying to repurpose ours.)

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally fine!

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think this makes a lot of sense for most cases (and is indeed how sexuality works, to be clear)-- but I think you could make a case for some of these trans people to be just living out a fetish, and not really bisexual. E.g. a trans-identified straight woman being into gay men, and acting out that fetish with another trans-identified straight woman, or the same with a trans-identified straight man doing the same but fetishizing lesbians.

edit: just noticed who posted this, we already talked about this in another comment chain haha.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

  1. man attracted to cis and trans women: bisexual with a femininity preference
  2. woman attracted to cis and trans men: bisexual with a masculinity preference
  3. man attracted to cis and trans men: bisexual with a masculinity preference
  4. woman attracted to cis and trans women: bisexual with a femininity preference
  5. transman attracted to cis and trans women: bisexual female with a femininity preference
  6. transwoman attracted to cis and trans men: bisexual male with a masculinity preference
  7. transman attracted to cis and trans men: bisexual female with a masculinity preference
  8. transwoman attracted to cis and trans women: bisexual male with a femininity preference
  9. transman attracted to cis women: lesbian female
  10. transwoman attracted to cis men: gay male
  11. transman attracted to cis men: straight female (possibly with a fetish for gay men)
  12. transwoman attracted to cis women: straight male (possibly with a fetish for lesbian women)
  13. transman attracted to transwomen: straight female
  14. transwoman attracted to transmen: straight male
  15. transman attracted to transmen: lesbian female
  16. transwoman attracted to transwomen: gay male
  17. any man or woman attracted to all other categories: bisexual with little or no preference for anything exclusive to one gender or masculinity/femininity

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

perfection

[–]szalinskikidproblematic androphile 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Bi Bi Bi Bi Bi Bi Bi Bi Homo Homo Hetero ✨TRANSBIAN✨ Hetero Hetero Homo Homo Bi

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Took me a second to realize you were responding to the post and not just chanting "Bi Bi Bi Homo Hetero" for fun. Lol.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Transbian = straight male with AGP with a fetish for lesbians

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah that's what I think. People are saying bisexual but if a "transbian" would never date a cis guy, it seems like it is just a fetish.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think most people here would simply say it's a straight male not bi lol. But a very weird fetishistic straight male lol

[–]chandra 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

To be honest, despite the fact that I don't see transwomen as true women or trans men as true men, I'm still inclined to say that if a straight man dates a post-op transwoman because he viscerally perceives to be the same as a regular woman with a vagina, even if he knows they're trans (and I think we have to be honest and say some trans people do actually pass and some people do genuinely perceive trans as their claimed sex), then he is still straight, and I don't think there's anything to be gained from splitting hairs about it.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Up until it became a fad to be trans, relationships with transgender people were a tiny outlier. There's really no need for any terminology since most people willing to date trans are bi to some degree.

[–]Eurowoman24 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Pansexual? the fancy term for bi with no hiccup regarding trans people

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, because bisexual does not mean "attracted to trans people," that's a distortion by wishful thinkers.

[–]Eurowoman24 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

well for some TRAs we should be attracted to any trans people no matter their sex.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, "wishful thinkers." Anyone asking sincerely for a definition of "bisexual" according to sane, historically-accurate standards should not be mixing "trans" into it. That's my understanding of the OP's intent: Seeking non-TRA-distorted answers. So it doesn't help when people come back with "bisexuals are attracted to trans people." That is the BS definition that needs to stop being propagated. Please. And thank you.

[–]Eurowoman24 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh I know that, but TRAs seem to forget what sexual attraction is and think it's gender attraction, then when trying to explain het woman = het man (usually) lesbian = woman and so on, they usually think genitals are the only hiccup and think things like het woman = transwoman, lesbian = transman

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Denial is a helluva drug. But no matter: Anyone who thinks like this isn't going to be intelligent enough for me to want to date them anyway. If they showed signs of being incapable of comprehending these basic things, any other incompatible details would be moot. Most of these complainers are both not very smart and not very kind, so I think they might want to consider those issues before blaming everyone around them for having a phobia.

[–]RedditHatesLesbiansHomosexual Not Queer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like heteroflexible and homoflexible is a good label here. It's just bisexual but very hetero or homo leaning, and gives a clearer understanding of your sexuality. But if you're genuinely sexually attracted to males and females you're bisexual. Unless it's psuedo bisexuality because the sex is a kink and not based on any attraction

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

someone wrote a very detailed response about this, how men who like natal women and pre op transwomen (but not men) is a sort of fetish thing... i forget the word... but it wasn't a sexuality. It made sense as I am not attracted to transwomen even if they have male genitalia, even though we are both the same sex.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Autogynephilia (AGP for short) might be what you're looking for.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No not agp, it was something that applied to people attracted to trans men too.

[–]fire_otter_earth_air 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

gynandromorphophilia?

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

gynandromorphophilia

that's it lol

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh, okay. Whoops, I have now confused two separate people lol.

I have heard the TQ crowd refer to that as being "attracted to femininity". If that is a specific fetish then I would be very curious to learn more about it.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it was this. gynandromorphophilia. Being specifically attracted to trans.

[–]aftx 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I thought that referred to dudes who who turned on at the thought of being a woman?

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I've never quite understood this, either.

Just a question for anyone who stumbles upon this comment:

Say if I dated a transman who has had bottom surgery and now has a neopenis (I wouldn't date them, to clarify, trans people are excluded from my dating pools because they are biological women) Would I be considered as genuinely transphobic since they technically have a penis?

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's not a real penis and doesn't work like one.

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift. 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Indeed. Apologies, I always see TRA's spouting: "oh genital preferences are fine (even though we'll violently harass you for having them!) but not dating a trans person because they are trans isn't right and is transphobic!" and the statement has always confused me lol. Don't they know that even if a trans person has had bottom surgery, their genitalia still doesn't function like a biological man and/or woman's would? Not dating someone because they are trans is fine, it literally goes against the meaning of your orientation.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

These people even thiink there is no difference between a dildo and a penis. They aren't connected to reality.

[–]8bitgay 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The whole penis debate is kinda funny if you follow gay subs. In one thread they'll say "all penis are valid, even those of transmen". On the other thread they'll condemn gay men who aren't into female genitals.

So which one is it? Do gay men like penis, so we're supposed to also like trans men's neo-"penis"? Or is liking penis just a bad social construct and we're actually supposed to like female genitals too? If we're supposed to be ok with female genitals, then why do some trans men call their genitals a penis?

Not to mention it's hilarious when you see comments like "I'm a bottom and my boyfriend is trans, I think he's even better than cis guys because he can use a big prosthetic penis"... I mean, spoiler alert: cis men can also use dildos. And on top of that they can even use their actual penis at the same time!

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you're real gay, you need an actual penis. If you're fine with a pussy and a piace of plastic, that's not very gay to me.

[–]aftx 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Many actually claim so.

But like, thing is,they're still males. So why would you have to be attracted to them? Sexual orientation is natural, why do we have to be attracted to males?

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I kind of wonder if some "trans lesbians" or "trans gay men" are actually not bisexual and just heterosexual. This is obvious for those of them who refuse to date other trans people (lol) and insist on only dating cis lesbians or cis gay men, respectively.

But, even for those who do date other trans people, e.g. a trans lesbian who would date a trans lesbian-- I actually am not sure if it's accurate to call that bisexuality, IF they are only getting off to the idea of being two lesbians having sex. Blanchard called that "pseudobisexuality" and I am inclined to agree with his definition because a fetish is not a sexuality.

But-- if that trans lesbian is more using dating trans lesbians as an excuse to date a guy with a dick, then he might actually be bi/gay. I have read about a few trans people refusing to date cis people and I kind of wonder if that is part of it.

Just my 2 cents, I find this an interesting topic but I am not very invested haha. If anyone wants to add/argue otherwise I'd be curious what people think.

[–]Gearbeta 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've heard of this happening with transmen more than transwomen. When a transman will date nothing but other transmen, its pretty obvious that they are a lesbian. I haven't heard of this happening so much with transwomen though, seems like the ones attracted to men go for straight men and the ones attracted to women go for lesbians.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's true, I've heard of it happening way more with transmen too. I have heard it happening for a few transwomen, though, at least online. You make a good point about transwomen going for straight men-- not sure if I have actually heard of any transmen going for straight women.

[–]aftx 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

does the whole "no therapy at all vs therapy w/o genital surgery vs therapy w/ genital surgery" change anything? because being a dude liking a transwoman who isn't even on therapy is totally gay.

I think liking someone with "therapy w/ genital surgery" is a very gray zone.

[–]BirdOfPlay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's all very simple. Do you know how a bull would mate with an object that is shaped to look like a cow? That's how it is with transwomen. As long as they look just like women, a straight man could go with them. Which is why anti-homosexuality people love the idea of gay men becoming transwomen. Heck, we humans would have sex with a robot, if that robot looked human.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of men wouldn't do that. The idea of staying a male would be repulsive and humiliating, even if they pass.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It'll be a lot easier to understand if you remove all the "cis"s and change "transwoman/transwomen" to "man/men" and change "transman/transmen" to "woman/women".