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[–]Gearbeta 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

I feel like they DID mean the same thing but then something weird happened and here we are. Like when I was a kid/younger it wasn't uncommon to see forms say things like "Gender: Male or Female" And no one was confused by this.

[–]mangosplums 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

It’s second wave feminists like Judith Butler who created this imaginary separate category she referred to as “gender”. It’s not a thing. Gender is actually just a synonym for sex and it was a huge mistake for radical feminists to attempt to change the meaning of that word.

[–]bopomofodojo 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The idea of "gender" as a concept is a useful one. It describes the cultural expectations foisted on people due to their sex, i.e. gender roles, gendered clothing, etc. It was not intended to either be a synonym for, or exactly the same as, sex.

But like goddamn everything in academic discourse, it's was twisted and adopted to mean something else by the mainstream because thinking is hard. So suddenly it became a synonym for "sex" in the English-speaking world, I guess because "sex" implies "sexual activity" while "gender" is nice and fluffy, which seemed OK for 20+ years, until TRAs decided to again decouple it to push their narcissism on others. Now we have a nonsensical wishy-washy situation where gender means sex except when it doesn't and the gatekeepers of that don't believe in either except when they do except head explodes.

[–]BiHorror 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Opposite, mate. Gender wasn't even used as a "cultural expectations" definition in the past. It was used for grammar (1st) but also used for the sexes (as you mentioned as a way to differentiate from intercourse). Then it dropped out of fashion, but was brought back by John Money with the whole "societal expectations" BS based on the experiments on a child. Feminists adopted that into their works, then TRAs did.

Mainstream doesn't even know of this, and the ones who do? They retaliate via bringing up John Money due to some of the shit he did (he had some controversial opinions on pedophilia). This terminological distinction is mostly in TRA, GC/feminist, women's and gender (and sexuality) studies, etc. circles and such. Mainstream still believes in the original definitions.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It is funny, GC feminism want to abolish gender as a concept and usage of this word, and usage of femininity and masculinity, while some other radical feminists are basing their position on existing gender stereotypes and gender expectations, which are separate from sex, for some reason, and at same time saying that all oppression is because biological sex. I think English language is just confuses people. In our language there are no words for gender, however there are words for "sex stereotype" and it means stereotypes based on your biological sex, like "women must be like that and do that because they are women". While "gender stereotype" means "women must be like that and do that because they are playing role of a woman", which makes no sense. If use "gender stereotype" as synonym to "sex stereotype", then everything will make sense. While gender-queer theory is making sure that nothing makes sense.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

is funny, GC feminism want to abolish gender as a concept and usage of this word, and usage of femininity and masculinity, while some other radical feminists are basing their position on existing gender stereotypes and gender expectations, which are separate from sex, for some reason, and at same time saying that all oppression is because biological sex.

Yeah, I do not understand that. To be honest, I thought they were the same groups but then I looked more into it, and it just got more and more confusing.

I think English language is just confuses people. In our language there are no words for gender, however there are words for "sex stereotype" and it means stereotypes based on your biological sex, like "women must be like that and do that because they are women". While "gender stereotype" means "women must be like that and do that because they are playing role of a woman", which makes no sense. If use "gender stereotype" as synonym to "sex stereotype", then everything will make sense.

I do too, and it's my native language. Although, I might be getting confused with the rest of this bit. Are you also English speaking or different language?

While gender-queer theory is making sure that nothing makes sense.

Yeah, for my family's language (Spanish), they created this term "Latinx" to mean "gender neutral." Let me tell you... Latino conservatives, or even just Latinos not into these ideologies, do NOT like that. It makes no sense! Latino is masculine, but it can also be used as unisex. So why? Who knows.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Are you also English speaking or different language?

No, and I studied English later in life.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ah! Your English is very good!

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you. For some reason in USSR teachers were better teaching foreign languages than our own.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No problem! And wow, didn't know that.

[–]BiHorror 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Late comment: But the real person who caused the whole "gender and sex are different" was a sexologist named John Money. Feminists did adopted it into their theories though! But Judith wasn't the one who coined the distinction.