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[–][deleted] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

What does this have to do with LGB?

We are not here to shit on trans and what happens with them.

Remember how LGB people need our voices and spaces back again?

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I'm against this bill enterily. I'm against hate crime laws. Obviously if you commit a crime against a person, you either hate this person or are indifferent towards this person. But in this context, indifference is just as bad as hate. Just increase the penalties for committing crimes.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Why are you against hate crime laws? Genuine descrimination and hate crimes happen all the time.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 8 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 7 fun -  (6 children)

like misgendering

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I'm not talking about "misgendering." I mean stuff like people being physically for being racial minorities, or for their sexuality, or for being women (femicide).

[–]denverkrisMy pronouns are Vodka?/Yes!/please 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Where is attacking a woman a hate crime?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Anywhere it's recognized that women are killed due to sexism? I know that violence against women is so prevalent that it's almost ignored but seriously? Look at what's happening in Mexico for an example.

[–]PassionateIntensity 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

AFAIK women aren't included in hate crimes legislation.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Which is sort of a problem...

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

first let me say I generally support hate crime laws, but now I see how they can be a problem. Because there are places now where misgendering is a hate crime. It's moved beyond physical attacks and now can be just words that will get you in trouble.

[–]denverkrisMy pronouns are Vodka?/Yes!/please 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because they're unnecessary and eventually lead to this type of stupidity? And because you could wind up being charged with a hate crime when really you just kicked the guys ass for a reason totally unrelated to their sexuality/gender/race/wtf ever. Isnt the crime itself hateful enough?

[–]BEB 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because who decides what is hate?

In California, "mis-gendering" can get you a year in jail. So a woman who refuses to call a man a woman can go to jail. Is that hate?

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I realize this timeline sucks all around, but would be curious to see a reference about this penalty in CA.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do a search for "Scott Wiener" and "California" and "law" and "misgendering" or "mis-gendering" (I've seen it spelled both ways).

In New York City, there's a $250,000 fine for misgendering.

[–]julesburm1891 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

“I can’t force people to say exactly what I think and have them arrested if they won’t. Let me just cry about it like an actual baby.”

This sums the article up.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 13 insightful - 8 fun13 insightful - 7 fun14 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

she can just buy Scotland and kick them out.

[–]CJLez 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"If you were to say a trans man is not a real man or trans woman is not a real woman, you would not be prosecuted under the bill that I am intending to bring forward, so long as you didn’t do it in a threatening or abusive way that is intended or likely stir up hatred."

'Likely to stir up hatred' is subjective and a low line to 'prove' so they have a strong get out of jail free (or, rather, go to jail) clause there.

On the plus side at least the police federation of Scotland are against this bill. Here in England a woman just tried to join the police force but was rejected because they considered it hateful that she said on social media that it is impossible to change biological sex. When she said she knew a couple of police officers who also had this view the recruiter said she should hand over their names so that they could be 'investigated.' It's getting more like 1984 every damn day.

[–]upcomingDaddygay af 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Britain is a sinking ship, best leave before it gets worse.

[–]Terfest_Shadow 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Didn't you know? Acknowledging reality is "stirring up hatred" now

[–]MiaXiang 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

"...or burst into a meeting with 100 people, and it was a meeting of trans men, and said, ‘Trans men are not real men’, then potentially, you know, if I was being threatening or abusive and likely to stir up hatred, then I would be committing a crime."

What about bursting into a meeting of 100 women and yelling "punch/kill terfs"? Is that a hate crime?

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah[S] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

No. Those TERFs were asking for it by having a meeting that wasn't inclusive of transwomxn.

[–]Ambisextrous 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Links article on “hate crimes mushrooming in Scotland” article is about homophobic hate crime not transphobic... yeah trans people are the most marginalise...

[–]PassionateIntensity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unless we're talking about real crime recorded by the police (not words), I wouldn't trust that either. Stonewall in the UK faked a 'hate crimes surge' based on surveys and Tweets of non-crimes.

The guidelines define a hate incident as "any non-crime incident which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender". https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-51501202

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This ridiculous and dangerous nonsense is why everyone should try to do their best getting the word out there that there are many LGB who do not want to be affiliated with the T.

Post a link to this s/LGBDropTheT sub everywhere and talk to politicians, to your HR department, to corporations that sponsor LGBT, to co-workers, to randoms, etc.

If LGB doesn't clearly break from the T soon, LGB will be blamed too, and the backlash might set LGB acceptance back decades.

In the US, the GLAAD/Harris poll seems to show that the backlash against LGBT has already begun with the dramatic drop in acceptance it shows among Millennials just in the last year.

[–]PassionateIntensity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If this insane bill passes, Scotland will become Iran.