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[–]Astrid2448[S] 16 insightful - 10 fun16 insightful - 9 fun17 insightful - 10 fun -  (50 children)

Many gay men have been turned away from this movement because of radical feminists treating them poorly. I know because I know several of them. This was also a common topic on reddit, gay and bi men who agree but don’t feel comfortable around women who are often frankly misandrists and social justice warriors. The same happens with many straight people and even women in general who arrive to support and then realize that there are still a lot of extremists here. It was part of the reason I made this post

[–][deleted] 46 insightful - 4 fun46 insightful - 3 fun47 insightful - 4 fun -  (38 children)

Most gay men I have ever met have their own stuff to worry about and have not spent a lot of time defending lesbians because lesbians have historically been able to keep their own gate until queer theory replaced women’s studies with gender studies. So I don’t think it’s the mean lesbians being mean, because we can differentiate between males enough to tell which ones are assholes. If men want to interpret women having criticisms as “all men are bad” then it’s hard to convince anyone otherwise, and most of us are not super worried about that because women. You’re basically suggesting that getting rid of terfs will help us not be called terfs. Which is not actually true. Most of us are not even terfs, including terfs.

[–]Astrid2448[S] 10 insightful - 9 fun10 insightful - 8 fun11 insightful - 9 fun -  (12 children)

It’s not the lesbians being mean, it’s the radical feminists being misandrist social justice warriors who are often just as arrogant and authoritarian as TRAs. And yes, if you treat people like trash or act like a moron they’ll be less inclined to support you.

[–]LiterallyawomanTERF IRL 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

These are all just your opinions you can’t present them as a fact to be debated over. Someone asked you earlier for evidence of the radfem anti-science agenda you stated exists, want to provide that?

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Swing on over to GC and watch all of the horrible, mostly not radfem, users in action saying hideous things to people when many are straight and homophobic, at the very least. Which category do they fit into? Or are we just mad at radfems?

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

I am a little confused. You seem to be implying that GC != radfem. Elsewhere in this thread you said that TRAs have redefined "TERF" to mean "anyone against TRAs". Yet, when I lurk on GC sometimes, it seems like people are using "GC" and "radfem" interchangeably.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I am implying gc and radfem are NOT the same thing. Some women are radfem on gender critical, but gender critical is it’s own thing since lots of them are not radfems. Radfems are critical of gender, but gender critical ppl are not all radfems.

I said check out GC if you want to see some problem behaviour instead of blaming radical feminism. Lots of GCs are homophobes.

But the distinction doesn’t matter to TRAs because they think we are ALL “trans exclusionary radical feminists” no matter what any of us believe. That’s what I am saying.

And even on here most users don’t seem to know the difference between gender critical and radical feminism

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lots of GCs are homophobes

GC feminism is still mostly led by lesbians. It is just that now even straight non-feminists or men's rights advocating men are joining GC as well, because of the fact that TRA are THAT much annoying and problematic to literally every person who has glimpses of the logic.

And of course with "normal people" there comes homophobia.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Gotcha, makes sense.

And even on here most users don’t seem to know the difference between gender critical and radical feminism

Well, to be fair, I'm not sure if all the GC people do either, since I have seen some of them use the terms interchangeably.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What homophobia have you seen from GC? Homophobia re gay men or lesbians? I have heard some people mention GC people being homophobic but I feel like I haven’t personally seen it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

There's a lot of people over their who like to rile people up and be bigots. They've got their own set of troll types just like the TRAs do.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Where are you seeing these GC and radfem bigots?

I've lurked on GC spaces for years and can count how many bigoted comments I've seen, there were that few.

I get a sense there's a lot of gaslighting going on in this thread...

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I saw a few of them over on reddit when the numbers were starting to grow. There would be a handful of people who would stir. E.g. calling trans people (as a group) narcissists, fetishists... often with the effect of slandering them as opposed to pointing out genuine criticisms of the community. A lot of inflammatory language that is designed to get people pissed off. That said, the saiddit has been a lot better. I suspect because it's smaller there is less to gain for someone who likes to stir people up.

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OK, now I understand where you're coming from and thank you for explaining!

For myself, I wouldn't call the words "narcissists" and "fetishists" bigoted: I would call them descriptive.

In my experience, women are trained from birth, in every culture I've encountered and I've traveled a lot, to never vent their anger.

So I myself am totally fine with women on a feminist sub venting their anger at men who are narcissists and fetishists (transgender activists include a staggering amount of both) taking a sledgehammer to women's rights, colonizing women's safe spaces, appropriating women's oppression and triggering women's innate PTSD from having been the victim of male violence and sexual harassment from the time they can remember.

I think it's healthy and given that the GC subs are meant to be one of the few spaces women can express themselves freely, I don't think the women on there should have to rein themselves in for fear of offending others.

[–]BEB 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OK, now I understand where you're coming from and thank you for explaining!

For myself, I wouldn't call the words "narcissists" and "fetishists" bigoted: I would call them descriptive.

In my experience, women are trained from birth, in every culture I've encountered and I've traveled a lot, to never vent their anger.

So I myself am totally fine with women on a feminist sub venting their anger at men who are narcissists and fetishists (transgender activists include a staggering amount of both) taking a sledgehammer to women's rights, colonizing women's safe spaces, appropriating women's oppression and triggering women's innate PTSD from having been the victim of male violence and sexual harassment from the time they can remember.

I think it's healthy and given that the GC subs are meant to be one of the few spaces women can express themselves freely, I don't think the women on there should have to rein themselves in for fear of offending others.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (24 children)

In the beginning I did notice some of the gc crowd having an “all men attitude” and even outright homophobia implying gay men were all whores lol. I don’t think it was from gc lesbians but the hetero gc who has a strong presence there. They defended lb as fellow women under attack but gb men were still “the patriarchy” it did drive off a few gay men in the beginning.

[–][deleted] 18 insightful - 6 fun18 insightful - 5 fun19 insightful - 6 fun -  (14 children)

Gc people tend to be homophobic bigots OFTEN, ive found. I unsubbed because they were suggesting firing someone over being trans at all. Just as bad as the gc on reddit, who were just as bad as TRAs. But that doesn’t mean lesbians who are radfems are all extremist trash and we should distance from them. If we had paid more attention to them years ago it’s unlikely we would have gotten so far down the TRA rabbit hole.

Also, any woman who defends women against partriarchy, or even uses the word, has the “all men attitude” to people who don’t want to actually address any issues. It’s as if a woman failing to provide a “not all men” disclaimer before every statement with “men” in it has an “all men attitude.” No one means “all” of anyone, that’s not logical and I doubt the speakers feel it’s every man

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 11 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 5 fun -  (10 children)

I read gc sub before finding lgbdropthet and there were definitely some "all men" attitudes from SOME of them. At dropthet, there was an article about gay men with body issues and getting botched cosmetic surgeries, and top comment was some radfem gloating about how it was men getting a taste of their own medicine (my words, but that was the gist of it.) another one was me asking a question about why something was a certain wayand i got a one word response. MEN. Apparently it was all our doing lol

Again let me say that I don't think all gc lesbians are extremists and of course I recognize and share elements of their beliefs (gender stereotypes need to go). I'm not saying gc L need to go, they are lgb. Just like the conservatives here., for example. But we shouldn't assume there is only one belief system that will solve the TRA problem.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

The people in GC are definitely pretty horrid, a lot. If they are calling themselves radfems too I hope they know what that means.

And that cosmetic surgery comment to a gay man is pretty damn lame. Gay men basically suffer similar beauty and youth standards to women. The expectations are very high. I imagine whoever posted comment that was straight, because AS USUAL, they are often homophobes in that sub, or know so little about the LGB community they don’t know the types of pressures gay dudes are under. I think cosmetic surgery is a bullshit waste of time for the most part, and money, but that doesn’t mean I don’t get why people do it.

Some people are assholes and want a one-word solution for all of these issues. GC and radfem are separate groups, but agree about gender feels and gender roles being dumb. And you’re right, some are extremists and some are not. We should be trying to work together with the reasonable ones instead of sending out eviction notices or we are not better than TRAs

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I'm not saying gc L need to go, they are lgb. Just like the conservatives here., for example. But we shouldn't assume there is only one belief system that will solve the TRA problem.

Sounds like we are pretty much on the same page then. Or at least, a lot of people here, maybe not some of the GC, lol.

To be honest, this is exactly why I am wary of GC. I am not a guy but I do not want to encourage that sort of behavior from anyone. Women are an oppressed group-- and men face a lot of gender-related difficulties specific to them, those things are not mutually exclusive and there's no need to villainize an entire group of people. If we are going to villainize anyone, villainize narcissistic, power-abusing people.. which for better or worse, can be found in any group.

[–]writerlylesbian 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

But who are women oppressed by? Women and men are not both oppressed by 'gender'. Women are oppressed by men, partly THROUGH gender, i.e. sex role stereotyping. If men don't like the sex role stereotyping they are being expected to perform, then they need to do something about it. Talking about 'some people' from 'all groups' being bad completely invisibilises the fairly significant and obvious sex-based pattern of oppression that is going on.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Women and men are not both oppressed by 'gender'.

I am conflating "gender" and "sex" as the same thing here, I guess I should have clarified because "gender" is such a hot-button word.

Talking about 'some people' from 'all groups' being bad completely invisibilises the fairly significant and obvious sex-based

Yes, but the thing I am specifically responding to is: women who say "all men are bad". When really, it is a structural problem, and villainizing every individual man you run across is not going to make a change to that structure.

If men don't like the sex role stereotyping they are being expected to perform, then they need to do something about it.

I mean, I agree. I am not sure how interested men in this space are in doing that.

I think we are pretty similar in views, despite my poor choice of wording, so let me clarify a little further.

What I said was:

"Women are an oppressed group-- and men face a lot of gender-related difficulties specific to them, those things are not mutually exclusive"

For example, men having a relative difficulty in sharing emotions and in finding people to share emotions with, because it is not "manly". Are the difficulties men face from societal prescriptions about sex/gender equivalent to the systematic violence women go through? No. But some people are speaking in black and white, that "all men are bad" "all men are x" etc. While I totally understand how someone could end up feeling that way based on their personal experiences-- we've got to have some nuance if we are to move forward.

I did not intend to make "invisible" the pattern of oppression that women go through-- my comments, out of context, might give someone that impression, but I know that pattern exists. I was talking about the specific issue of LGB men saying that they feel uncomfortable with GC because of the anti-men sentiment that some GC users apparently display.. or at least I thought that's what this post was about, I'm not sure I know anymore.

[–]writerlylesbian 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I was talking about the specific issue of LGB men saying that they feel uncomfortable with GC because of the anti-men sentiment that some GC users apparently display

Lol. In other words, men being uncomfortable with women who point out the realities of men oppressing women, and then say all those women are just bitter manhaters.

This post was an excuse for people who don't like feminists to shit all over feminists. It's grounded in misogyny. For years, radical feminists were the ONLY group who were standing up to the transactivists. They were the ONLY allies lesbians had. Gay men certainly weren't there giving a shit about lesbians. That has only happened very recently, because now gay men are being pressured to like pussy.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Gay men certainly weren't there giving a shit about lesbians. That has only happened very recently, because now gay men are being pressured to like pussy.

I am new to this whole corral, so I wasn't there back before gay men were being pressured, but I will take your word for it.

In other words, men being uncomfortable with women who point out the realities of men oppressing women, and then say all those women are just bitter manhaters.

I agree, this is a pattern I've seen come up a lot when people criticize feminists of any kind. But, when some disgruntled feminists (or people claiming to be feminists, I guess they could secretly be trolls) say stuff like "All men are violent", I am not sure how to defend that. I just don't think it's okay for people to make sweeping generalizations even towards the oppressor group-- which men are.

I guess I am making a major assumption here-- I am assuming that the vast majority of posters on s/LGBdroptheT, including the men, realize that misogyny and sysematic violence towards women, are real and important to talk about. I thought everyone was on the same page about that, but maybe some of these people complaining about "radfems" actually do not believe that.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So some GC feminists and Rad fems hate women or gay men, and therefore all rad fems and GC feminists are to be discarded?

Even though it was women in general and feminists in particular who provided the support that won gays (LGB) their rights?

The world is not black & white, nor are people, nor are organizations

Right now, LGB needs everyone it can get to retain its rights, so I would suggest find allies wherever you can no matter what you call them or what they call themselves.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

So some GC feminists and Rad fems hate women or gay men, and therefore all rad fems and GC feminists are to be discarded?

Where did I say that?

The world is not black & white, nor are people, nor are organizations

I agree. Unfortunately there are many people in this thread who seem to disagree.

so I would suggest find allies wherever you can no matter what you call them or what they call themselves.

That has been my position throughout this entire post.

I'll just summarize where I am at.

  • LGBdroptheT needs more allies.
  • I would love it if GC and the non-GC'ers could just put aside their differences, and get along.
  • I have asked the non-GC OP what constructive actions we could take to address the criticisms she brought up, and she seems uninterested in finding a solution.
  • While trying to get a better sense of the relationship between GC and non-GC-- that is, asking people questions-- I used the word "misandry", which I did not realize was a loaded term, and a GC commenter suggested I was an MRA ally and a "handmaiden".

Apart from a few lovely individuals who I learned some things from, most people do not seem interested in having a constructive conversation on this subject.

You seemed cool when we talked before. If you genuinely want to talk about this stuff more, feel free to DM me, but I am done trying to engage with people here on this topic.

[–]lairacunda 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I actually agree with you.

[–]lairacunda 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I think you need to differentiate a few things. Anyone can be gender critical (gc). It may have started with radical feminism but it has much broader appeal. There are definitely right-wingers who are gc and there are right-wing women who are gc but not radical feminist. I haven't run into too many homophobic right-wingers or religious extremists at r/GenderCritical or s/GenderCritical because, guess what? Homophobic bigots tend to get shut down or banned. GC on this site set its settings to opt out of the general feed thus allowing bans for CMV posts and challenges. I think it's really important, especially on this sub where everyone is familiar with the gc concept and the GC sub, to differentiate which it is you are referring to.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I have seen bigot and homophobic behaviour here, and on the GC sub on Reddit. That’s factual. I’ve also seen the same homophobia, but a different flavour, on most TRA subs. The I think a lot of GC are obviously not radfems. That is an important distinction, and one that is not made enough. People behave like they are synonymous, or believe they are. But GC as a community is difficult to stomach.

I can tell the difference between things and also know what homophobia is. You don’t have to be a religious fundamentalist to be a homophobe, or an extremist. Many people who are GC are not so critical of gender when it comes to themselves, only LGBT. That is pretty homophobic and it’s VERY common.

[–]lairacunda 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sadly you are correct about a lot of this. The thing with r/GC is that it had non-stop trolling. Banning 100+ trolls in any 24 hour period was typical. The sub was intended as, and was, a radfem sub. But there was a constant influx of newbies who were peaking and were coming in from all types of backgrounds. The men would usually say something stupid and get banned right away. The women who said something stupid were mostly engaged with. Why? Because radical feminism is for women. So inevitably there was a learning curve. s/GC is actually a different animal. It's a different modcrew, as far as I can tell. There seems to be way less trolling but also fewer actual radical feminists. And that's just my impression, I could be wrong. The comments seem a bit more mainstream so some homophobia slipping through the cracks wouldn't surprise me. On r/GC, homophobia would get smacked down swiftly but the sheer volume of fucked-up comments would be difficult to keep up with.

[–]just_lesbian_things 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm probably one of the "all men attitude" types, but I don't think gay men are whores. See, when some ass comes to GC and shill family values and other sexist, homophobic, victim blaming, white supremacy dog whistle shit and nobody wants to call it out, then I'm going to. But you know, if you're not into that stuff either, feel free to step in at any time. Basically, if you don't want to take out the trash, then I will do it, but you don't get to complain about how I do it.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Thanks for sharing, the context is helpful. What do you think makes sense to do about this? We can't really exclude LGB who are radfem from s/LGBdroptheT (or at least, I think that would be unfair and ridiculous). We could try to be more clear about our rules and that misandry is not allowed.

[–]lairacunda 14 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

You do realize that there have been radical feminists who have been subscribed to LGBDroptheT from its inception and who have contributed to it significantly. The fact that you want to exclude us is evidence of your discomfort with women batting for their own team.

I would have been impressed if you had proposed making a rule that misogyny isn't allowed as well. I suppose that doesn't bother you (if you even notice it). It sounds like even though you "can't really exclude LGB who are radfem", you sure would like to. Maybe you can start a new sub called GBDroptheT since you've already dropped the L.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

The fact that you want to exclude us is evidence of your discomfort with women batting for their own team.

Did you intend to reply to me, or someone else? I am not for excluding radfems, as I have said not only in this comment, but numerous others in the thread.

do realize that there have been radical feminists who have been subscribed to LGBDroptheT from its inception and who have contributed to it significantly.

I had to inform someone else of this, elsewhere in the thread, and now you are getting angry at me for "not knowing it". I appreciate the irony, lol.

edit: this comment https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/65og/being_associated_with_radical_feminism_is/o0hq

It sounds like even though you "can't really exclude LGB who are radfem", you sure would like to.

You are projecting a lot onto what I am saying. Why are you assuming this?

Maybe you can start a new sub called GBDroptheT since you've already dropped the L.

I am a lesbian, and I post on s/Lesbians. I believe I have seen you over there as well.

Even though I am not GC, I have been trying to convince a few other people in this thread that GC are not hostile, but maybe I should re-think my position...

[–]lairacunda 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

No, I was replying to you. But you may be correct that I did not get the whole picture or got the wrong one. Specifically, "We can't really exclude LGB who are radfem from s/LGBdroptheT" and "... be more clear about our rules ... misandry is not allowed." In my experience, people who talk about misandry are MRAs, misogynists and handmaidens. Maybe you're not but if you use their vocabulary, you're going to get classified. No two ways about it.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Maybe you're not but if you use their vocabulary, you're going to get classified. No two ways about it.

You can be all "my way or the highway", but if you are, you are going to turn away people who actually agree with you from your movement.

This is exactly why I have felt uncomfortable with GC. I don't think my beliefs are even that different! But if I make even one mistake in phrasing, I am "the enemy" and am somehow on the side of MRAs? You've gotta be kidding me. What if I just am not educated on these topics? You ever consider that?

I have endured misogyny-fueled acts of violence for a good portion of my life. I do not know whatever set of cool vocabulary words you personally use, or that are common among radfems, or GC feminists, or whoever else. Why do I not know them? Because I have not been exposed to them, and I honestly have not yet had the time and energy to learn them.

I hope you learn to consider other people's perspectives and where they are coming from. And I hope you are not representative of the GC community, which I was considering engaging more with but I sure as fuck don't want to now, thanks. No disrespect intended to the other individuals I interacted with who were thoughtful.

edit: Also, you missed half my quote that you were originally responding to-- THIS is what I said:

We can't really exclude LGB who are radfem from s/LGBdroptheT (or at least, I think that would be unfair and ridiculous)

Some other commenters seemed to be suggesting this, and I made it clear in my comment that this would be ridiculous. And yet you chose to jump on the fact that I said the word "misandry" as evidence that I am a radfem-hating or GC-hating MRA ally.

[–]lairacunda 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I did not call you a "handmaiden". I even said "maybe you're not". To clarify, people use words and depending on how they use them and what they say, other people will assume where they are coming from. That's all. This isn't personal. Learn or don't learn, whatever you want.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think they followed us here... everyone here is getting along. I don't think we need to exclude radfems but people here have to realize we share views all over the political/ideological spectrum. Good debates like this are worthwhile but over there I knew when i was going to be downvoted for a specific post and which group was doing it lol. I guess if someone is just being a bogot they can be reported.

[–]reluctant_commenter 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think they followed us here... everyone here is getting along.

I agree that it seems like everyone is getting along. Which is why I was confused by this post, because it seems to imply GC are stifling people here. Fortunately, as you and others have pointed out, the lack of downvoting makes it easier to see a diversity of views that might otherwise be silenced.

I don't think we need to exclude radfems but people here have to realize we share views all over the political/ideological spectrum.

I agree. What I am a little confused by is this:

I don't think they followed us here...

In case it is not obvious, a sizable portion of this subreddit are members of GenderCritical. But they are not causing problems here, as far as I can tell. So, what is the problem? (I am asking OP, not you, to be clear, I realize you didn't make this post.)

[–]reluctant_commenter 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Okay, this is an actionable item and perhaps a reasonable criticism to level against radical feminists.

But, you are posting in s/LGBDroptheT not GenderCritical. Unless I am much mistaken (gay/bi men feel free to chime in), people here in this sub are pretty friendly towards men, right? If the GC people are rude towards men, they don't seem to be doing it here, that I can tell.

What can we do here in this sub to improve in this issue? I am interested in implementing positive change.

[–]lairacunda 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You're not going to get a reply because u/Astrid2448 is here to rant about radical feminism being 'mean' and not centering gay men. This is a shitpost.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

People invoke “mean dyke” (re: mean radfem) as a way to guilt lesbians into lowering boundaries because it’s a lesbian stereotype that they are happy to believe applies to all of us. It’s the Trojan Horse that let all the non-lesbians in to begin with so it’s pretty ironic that we have been booted out of the community and now someone wants us to be “nicer” to males, as if being more “inclusive” was not the PROBLEM in the first damn place. How do they think every lesbian community ended up full of non-lesbians? Magical “fluidity”? Lol

Seeing another whole group of lesbian feminists condemned for being unpopular because people are not paying attention to who is who is maddening to me. We can disagree with women who are radfems and poli lez and whatever without completely booting the only lesbians who are on our side (for the most part) from the entire fight. Lol

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I'm not sure if it's an intentional shitpost or not. I don't mind engaging in case it's not. But, the silence is kinda telling either way-- because I don't see any "calls to action" for what to do about the described grievances.

edit: also, I am the commenter you thought was an anti-radfem gay man, lol.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

This is the exact reason I am pissed at women online. “They are not the ‘right’ lesbians, so let’s get rid of them” sentiment. I don’t see us getting a community back in the real world if this is the type of behaviour people engage in. Why would women bother fighting?

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I don't know what to say. I have seen some really thoughtful comments so far from GC, and from those who are anti-GC, but then you get stuff from people who assume which "side" you are on from one mild comment.

[–]ThisSiteIsUnusable 8 insightful - 8 fun8 insightful - 7 fun9 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

Sure thing. They'd help, but the bitches and dykes are just too mean.

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 8 fun21 insightful - 7 fun22 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

So mean. Such bitches. Such dykes. As if cultivating a literal spine isn’t a prerequisite to being a homosexual.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Who said that though..? I mean, I know that's a stereotype but I see a lot of gay/bi men in here contributing thoughtfully. This one poster doesn't speak for all gay men.. and she's not even a man lol.

[–]InLaymansterms 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed with this since that’s how I felt. I had to turn away when I’d see so much hate against men when I’d stop by the gendercritial sub when it was on reddit. It wasn’t just criticizing the trans/nonbinary/queer movement but it was just women making incredibly broad statements and in general being hateful and bitter towards men.

[–]lmaonope333 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

because feminism is a movement for females, being gay doesn't make them female so obviously the movement will not center them. I have never been mean to a gay man irl but if they come into online female only spaces they will be booted out. it's called having boundaries