DiscussionBeing associated with radical feminism is dragging this movement down.

submitted by Astrid2448 from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]mangosplums 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I also feel caught in between because I believe that some trans people are legitimate. The two sides are either all or nothing. Either there's no real trans people, everyone is the sex they were born in, even if they've gone through a full transition and have lived as the opposite sex since young adulthood, or everyone can just choose their gender and there's no such thing as sex. Both sides are so extreme. I feel uncomfortable around either group. I keep leaving this site and coming back because I'll read comments here that I disagree with so thoroughly, or comments from people who truly seem to just be bigots. It's really uncomfortable. But then I see the same from the other side, which is now the mainstream left. Both sides seem to be unreasonable to me and have authoritarian tendencies.

[–]8bitgay 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I think I have a similar view. I don't really care how people wanna live their lives, how they wanna present themselves and be called. I imagine it might be awful to feel dysphoria, if calling someone he/she helps dealing with it, whatever for me.

For me the issue is that more and more being respectful to them isn't enough. Just because I'm gay and I call you a "he" doesn't mean I'll be attracted to you. My attraction is to the male body as a whole (including the genital, but not only it), not to your identity. Gay and lesbian spaces were created because we were persecuted, because we're a minority, and first and foremost we're a sexual minority. People who aren't part of this minority might be allies but they shouldn't be in our spaces - especially not in the few spaces where we can express our sexualities freely. As much as they talk about safe spaces, they really can't respect our safe spaces. They already have their labels, they already have their spaces. I really can't understand why they're so obsessed with taking other spaces as well.

And frankly I find their lack of consistency very offputting too. Homosexuality is a very clear concept, but the TQ supporters aren't clear, they're always sending contradictory messages. Someone might say that gay men need to feel attracted to people who identify as men, but minutes later this same person will say that gay men need to feel attracted to non-binary people (who don't identify as men). Not only they try to redefine our sexualities, but they can't even be consistent about it.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Main ideas in GC are similar, thought. Most people there are former trans allies, or people who actually know transsexuals they respect. At least on reddit and here on saidit.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I also feel caught in between because I believe that some trans people are legitimate. The two sides are either all or nothing.

I am not GC and can't speak for them, but, I can tell you that many or even most people in this sub believe that some trans (a minority of them) people are legitimate, myself included. The medical model, so to speak. There was a bit of an informal poll in the comments of some thread a week or two ago, but I would be curious to do a poll on that anyway.

Both sides seem to be unreasonable to me and have authoritarian tendencies.

Personally I believe GC is the obvious lesser of the two evils, but I don't have much at stake in this debate. GC doesn't seem to actively harass LGB, for example (though some are homophobic)-- whereas TRAs are out for our blood.

[–]mangosplums 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree that many people here, maybe even most, believe that some trans are legitimate, but there’s a large percent of very active and vocal people that don’t believe any trans person is legit. I would say that the radical feminist philosophy doesn’t think any trans person is legit because they think all trans stuff, even the most severe, is based on sexist stereotypes. That it doesn’t matter how many hormones you take or whether you’ve flipped your penis inside out or not, or how severe your dysphoria is, you are still a man and blah blah blah. I understand their point of view, I just don’t agree with it. So even if a large percentage of people on this site don’t align stringently to that viewpoint, that viewpoint is still the cornerstone of this site and the most active posters and the people who run the site adhere to it.

I also agree that GC is the lesser or two evils. If I didn’t think that I wouldn’t continue coming here.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

that viewpoint is still the cornerstone of this site and the most active posters and the people who run the site adhere to it.

Interesting. I have not looked at that community in-depth in a long time, so I have not noticed trends like that. But that is a big difference. I hope people don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater" in rejecting trans activist ideology-- it sucks that a vulnerable minority group, actual trans people, is getting taken over by political ideologues and bored kids.

If I didn’t think that I wouldn’t continue coming here.

Very true, sorry to be redundant haha. I am preaching to the choir.

Glad you are here :)