DiscussionBeing associated with radical feminism is dragging this movement down.

submitted by Astrid2448 from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]BEB 32 insightful - 3 fun32 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Regarding the US, I know that the majority of Americans have no idea what a Rad Fem is, nor would they know of any LGB / Rad Fem link, so I don't think people are sitting around, (in the middle of a pandemic and economic chaos, with a crazy President attacking the post office) thinking, "Hmmm, Rad Fems are hardcore leftists, so I'm going to hate LGB people because of them.."

I mean, I don't know of any Rad Fem/ LGB link except for lesbians who are also Rad Fems, and I've been lurking around LGBDroptheT since it started on Reddit.

Second, again in regards to the US (and apologies to non-Americans and the OP if he/she is not American) in the US, the rights of all women and all LGB regardless of whether they're feminists, Leftists, Log Cabin Republicans, misogynists, whatever, are under attack.

As I keep typing, the Equality Act, currently in the US Senate, will change the legal definition of "sex" to include "gender identity." This will destroy women and gay men as distinct legal categories and lead to many laws protecting women and gay men on the basis of sex thrown into limbo.

The Democrats and Biden, if they win the Senate and the Presidency, have promised to prioritize the passage of the Equality Act.

So, for now, women and LGB need to unite and act - tell the Democrats "DO NOT CHANGE THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF SEX BY INCLUDING GENDER IDENTITY."

Then we can go back to bickering.

[–]Astrid2448[S] 7 insightful - 8 fun7 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 8 fun -  (4 children)

  1. I don’t think they’re sitting around thinking it. I think they might come close to “peaking” and then find groups like gendercritical, which are often just as stupid but in a different way. Part of the problem is that these people are creating this huge conflict within their leftist circles that is not immediately visible to people outside it, but hurts LGB and even TQ+.

  2. The link is that both radfems and libfems are extremely involved in the LGBT issues to the point of it being like a mini war within both feminism and the extreme left. They are often not even gay themselves but obsessed with the issue.

  3. I am aware of the legal issues and I comment on them. I just think radfems are hurting our case rather than helping it in many cases.

[–]BEB 34 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 0 fun35 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just from lurking on GC and LGB social media, I think that, while mainstream GC feminists are extremely supportive of LGB Drop the T efforts, they're primarily fighting for women's rights.

And GC feminists weren't the ones who started the conflict with the TQ+: all GC feminists are trying to do is retain women's rights, spaces and sports. As far as I've seen, most GC feminists are very supportive of trans rights, they just won't let trans DEMANDS destroy women's rights.

I have also seen that a good percentage of the women now involved in the struggle against trans demands activism initially came to the struggle because of a gay child who suddenly decided that they were transgender. So these women do have a stake in both gay rights (to protect their child's future) and women's rights.

But in the US, and again I apologize if that's not where you are, or if your experiences are different, no one I know and I know a lot of educated, relatively politically involved people (casual) knows what a Rad Fem is, much less associates them with LGBT.

In fact, until I tell them, no one even knows that there is a faction of LGB that wants to drop the T. When I explain it, they get it, but it's a long explanation, because trans activists have been so successful in deliberately cementing the T to LGB.

So, in the US at least, I wouldn't worry about Rad Fems being affiliated with LGB drop the T efforts in the public mind. Young people and SJWs maybe, but Jake and Jayne Average, no.

[–]reluctant_commenter 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm reading your points and it strikes me that although I feel very differently now-- this actually was pretty similar to what my position used to be, wayyyyy back before I ever got into this.

Let me try to meet you where you are at: I agree there is a similarity between GC and TQ in terms of how fervent they are. Both camps seem pretty damn committed to their positions.

But-- let's keep reality in mind here. You say this:

and then find groups like gendercritical, which are often just as stupid but in a different way.

...but the reality is, one side, TQ, has a warped ideology that is riddled with logical inconsistencies, suppression of scientific evidence, and is used to perpetrate child abuse and violence (rape, forced SRS in some countries, etc.) on the daily.

Now, I'm not a radfem and I'm not about to give you a pitch on why to join GC. But-- apart from being rather zealous on the internet, and some being quite negative especially about men (and I totally agree that is worth addressing, see my other comment reply)-- what is GC doing that makes them "as stupid but in a different way" as TQ?

Like, we've got 1. institutionalized child abuse + doxxing on the regular and god knows what else, vs. 2. being an asshole on an online forum. Those are not equivalent, lol. And I could be wrong but it doesn't seem to me like GC is being harmful in this sub.

edit: Also, while I am still personally wary of the GC sub, the GC people I have encountered on this sub all seem pretty polite. Maybe I am not noticing comments directed at men as much, but that is just my perspective.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Most critique I've heard about GC on the West is often that they are menhaters and political lesbians. However, many there are not supporting separatism and political lesbianism (as PL are hurting very much actual lesbians nowadays, so they are trying to drop it within community) and pretty fine with men. Ovarit looks to be more radicalized, thought, than both reddit and saidit GC, but that understandable. And I am not sure if it is associated with Drop the T at all either, haven't seen it being mentioned a single time.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most critique I've heard about GC on the West is often that they are menhaters and political lesbians.

Yeah, that is partly why I have stayed away.

and pretty fine with men.

I guess I am hearing mixed messages on this front. You seem okay with GC; at least a few men do not, according to this poster; and either way I personally haven't noticed GC coming in here and being like "mEn sUcK" although I could've easily missed something.